Questions re: Ford 800 Series for 1st tractor

[bungerc]

Hi everyone,

I have read this forum for a month or so and am hoping to get some advice/guidance on my first tractor purchase. I purchased 10 acres of ground that is flat as a pancake and we are building a house on it (hopefully) this year, and after paying someone to bush hog the thing last fall I figure I'd probably be ahead to buy an inexpensive tractor and bush hog and it would pay for itself in a year or two; plus the idea of having something to haul off logs and some relatively light work (maybe a garden) would be really nice.

I've mostly settled on the Ford 800 series tractors; it sounds like they're a pretty big jump in utility from the N series and they're virtually the same price as the 600 series in my neck of the woods (mid-Missouri), but I'm kind of stuck on whether I should hold out for an 860 to get live PTO, an 850 in case they have better reliability than an 860 or if the 840 is good enough (there is an 840 I've been looking at--at least I am going to assume it's an 840 because it has a 4-speed transmission, although I suppose it's possible it's a 640 with an 800 decal because I can't see the model number under the paint and I hear 840s are relatively rare).

I should note I'm mechanically inclined compared to the general public, but I'm definitely not a mechanic by trade and have zero experience with tractors. I'd be more inclined to buy one of these models if they're more reliable even if they're not quite as convenient to use. I really just wanted something to mow and push snow, although I haven't really seen many videos out there of folks blading snow with one of these. Just looking for advice for those out there with worlds more experience than me!

 

[Tom in Mo.]

The 800 801 series is a great tractor when in good condition and they are tough. The big IF is condition as they are 62-65 years old. The five speed gives you the extra gear and sorta spreads out the four speed. Live PTO on the 86x tractors is desirable.
The blue tractors are very good too.

This post was edited by Tom in Mo. on 01/25/2023 at 09:38 am.

 

[Steve in IL]

I would search for the 8x1 or 6x1 that is in the best
condition. Our only tractor growing up on 100 acres of
pastures and woods was a 58 641. Dad had a 5 foot brush
mower, 7 foot sickle bar mower, 6 foot rear blade, 7 foot
disc, 2 bottom plow, 3 point carrier, ground driven
manure spreader (loaded by hand). Did everything we
needed. Good luck.

 

[TomIn]

I'm a big fat geezer. I now own a 1955 Ford 640 and a 1955 Ford 960 (basically the narrow front version of the 860). I
spend my winters in the city, so don't do much snow moving with a tractor.

I've found that you need to consider a few other things when choosing/using a tractor. You mention pushing snow. Front
mount snow blades for that vintage tractor are pretty rare and expensive. You will likely need auxiliary hydraulics to use
the plow. Moving snow with a back blade works but is hard on an old man's neck to turn and see what is happening. If you
are moving snow, loaded tires, chains, and/or wheel weights help the traction. They likely won't be needed for mowing.

You will find that a front-end loader would be handy on occasions. Good loaders now seem to cost about as much as old
tractors. If they have been on a tractor for 60 years they may be worn out and will likely have caused a lot more wear on
the tractor.

The 800 tractors seem to use quite a bit more fuel than the 600 series. The cost of the fuel may or may not be a factor
for you. I haul my gasoline in five-gallon cans, and the problems of hauling and storing more gas is a bigger issue than
its cost.

The live PTO is a great feature when using a bush hog, but of little advantage when pushing snow or dragging logs. These
vintage tractors seem to have been designed for small nimble folks. I have a bit of a hard time with the higher clutch
pedal on my 960. Stepping over the five-speed transmission seem to be harder for me than the four-speed.

Any of the tractors you have mentioned are overkill for a small garden and don't have a slow enough ground speed for ideal
use of a rototiller attachment.

My county home ground is pretty rough, and I mow a few acres with a finish mower behind my Ford 640. The larger wheels on a
tractor make the ride smoother than using a riding lawn mower or zero turn. However, they do leave ruts and tracks when
mowing over wet areas.

Lots of folks don't like narrow front row crop tractors. The Ford 900 and 901 series seem to sell for less than the wide
front models. I bought mine because I like the looks of them and wanted a puttering project. Maybe someday I will figure
out how to get on and off of it!

 

[bungerc]

(quoted from post at 15:10:34 01/25/23)

I've found that you need to consider a few other things when choosing/using a tractor. You mention pushing snow. Front
mount snow blades for that vintage tractor are pretty rare and expensive. You will likely need auxiliary hydraulics to use
the plow. Moving snow with a back blade works but is hard on an old man's neck to turn and see what is happening. If you
are moving snow, loaded tires, chains, and/or wheel weights help the traction. They likely won't be needed for mowing.

Yes, I said push snow but really I would anticipate having to use a back blade; I haven't seen any old Fords with a blade on the front and I can't imagine a bucket on a front loader would be practical at all for such a thing. A back blade is how my Dad always did it on his JD 50, but as a kid I never thought to ask how well it worked. It doesn't look particularly convenient, but for now as a 40 year old I think I could manage until I had the cash to buy something more purpose-built.

I would love to have a bucket but have no idea how often I would use it; as such I've kind of cooled to the idea of waiting for one to come up that has one, particularly if it's hard on everything else; kind of like the front blade I think at some point I might have more funds to buy something more purpose-built but it's not necessary today.

I haven't looked at or really seen any 900-series tractors for sale, but the narrow front end does spook me a bit; one of the reasons we didn't keep my Dad's John Deere after he passed was that I was certain I'd tip the thing over 10 minutes in, although my 10 acres is awfully flat as compared to the old family plot.

A lot to think about here...thanks to everyone and if folks have opinions keep them coming!

 

[Bob N.Y.]

Have you considered a Massey Ferguson 65. It is about the same horsepower as an 861 and they all have live PTO.

 

[Steve in IL]

You can find old Fords with front plow lifts. Theyre a bit
uncommon, but not too rare in areas with snow. That said,
they are not really the best snow pushers unless you add
a lot of weight and chains.

 

[Tim PloughNman Daley RIP]

Welcome aboard. The first thing you will need to do is get the ESSENTIAL MANUALS no matter which model you choose. They are the best investments you can make for your
machine. You might want to evaluate your needs as to which model to get. The Ns are great little workhorses, perfect for mowing grass, brush hogging, plowing snow, and
garden/deer plots. The 9N, 2N, and 8N used the 4-CYL Flat Head engine, about 28 HP; the NAA/Jubilee introduced the 134 CID OHV engine, a much better design, and these
were also used on the 600 and 700 models. In 1954 FORD released the 800 and 900 Models, now a 172 CID/OHV engine, about 40 HP. ALL FORDS were 6V/POS GRN until the late
1950's when the diesel models were introduced. Many models were switched over to 12V/NEG GRN but do not assume just because you have a 6V or a 12v battery your system
is wired correctly for that setup. The 800 can handle a 3-Bottom plow and options include power steering and live PTO. Your gas mileage will be greater than an N also
so a point to consider. Here are the manuals you should get:

FORD HUNDRED SERIES ESSENTIAL MANUALS-


600 & 800 OWNER/OPERATOR MANUAL:

FORD TRACTOR MPC, 53-59:

**MPC, MASTER PARTS CATALOG

I & T FO-20 SERVICE MANUAL:

Tim Daley(MI)

 

[Ultradog MN]

Bungerc,
Welcome to the board.
Some random thoughts and opinions:
The 800/801 Series are are great old
tractors that will do a lot of useful for
you. Get one with good tires.
They are Way better than an N series and a
great first tractor.
There is no such thing as a rare Ford of
any model. They made a gazillion of them
and LOTS of them are still in service.
I would 3 to 1 prefer a good, honest
tractor that was still in it's work clothes
than a dolled up job with pretty paint and
new decals.
Pay close attention to the condition of the
rear rims (rust) and tires (worn/cracked)
Replacing a pair can cost you a third of
the price of the tractor.
The 4 speed is the least desirable but
likely the most reliable transmission.
The two different 5 speeds are more
popular.
The 5 speed with Live PTO is the most
popular.
People talk a lot about Live PTO.
I would likely pick a plain Jane 4 speed
model over a 5 speed if the 4 sp tractor
had power steering.
Don't despise the Blue Fords.
Every series of Ford tractor had
refinements, upgrades and options that the
prior ones did not have.
A Ford 3000 will have a few less ponies
under the hood than an 800 but is heavier,
more robust and has greater longevity. You
are likely to find them better optioned too
- more gear choices, power steering,
differential lock, etc.
Did I mention the tires?

 

[Apple Orchard tractors]

I have had several old Ford tractors over the years. IMO the 861 is the best of those older models. But, when I started fooling
around with older tractors a good friend and tractor jockey told me that the 1000 series was a lot more tractor for not much more
money and after several older models, I decided he was right. I have owned and used the 3000 and 4000 series and both are quite a
bit more tractor than the 800 or 600 series. Power steering is a nice option on any tractor.
Plowing snow with a back blade is pretty tough, you will need chains and wheel weights to do much good.
Good luck with whichever you go with

 

[showcrop]

Yes, the 860 with live PTO is desirable, however, in rotary mowing the amount that it will help you is going to depend on how variable the thickness of the grass/weeds/brush that you are mowing. If it is fairly uniform you could mow the whole ten acres without once having to stop, except to clean the seeds and chaff from the auxiliary screen that you add in front of the grill.

 

[MarkB_MI]

Live PTO is a must for me, although I've used plenty of tractors that didn't have it. And the five speed transmission is much better than the four speed for just about everything.

Note that the four cylinder 4000 tractors made in the early sixties are almost identical to the 801 series that preceded them.

 

[Colin King]

I don't see that anybody has explicitly said this, but the tractor with a 5spd and live PTO would not be an 860, but rather an 861. Just make sure when you make your purchase, you have the model correctly identified and that you've tested it. Live PTO means that horizontal transmission motion has stopped, but the PTO continues to operate.

I'll add my 2 cents to the conversation from my personal experience. My family farms 90 acres with an 8N (purchased in 2005) and a 961 diesel (purchased in 2013). We commercially raise fruits and vegetables and sheep for meat and breeding stock.

Fuel economy matters a lot to me and the tight margins I work with. Both of my tractors burn roughly 1 gallon/hr when doing heavy work, such as cutting or baling hay. Thinking about your hp requirements in the future is an important first step, particularly with today's high fuel costs.

The 8N is ideal for a large garden because of it's small size. There's plenty of equipment available for the 8N that can be used or modified for garden use. The 8N is also an ideal size for working in the woods because of its tight turning radius. It is also my go-to tractor for raking hay, cutting hay, or brush hogging. It's reliable, gets into tight spots easily, easy to work on, and parts are plentiful.

The 860 series tractor will be a bit bigger than the 8N and quite a bit heavier. It should have similar nimbleness of the N series. If your soil is heavy in your garden, though, this extra will matter in terms of soil compaction. Unless you get a diesel version, the 860 series will also consume quite a bit more fuel.

Our 961D is used primarily for baling hay on a New Holland square baler, as a loader tractor, operating a snowblower, and for moving really heavy loads, or operating equipment with hydraulics. The only need for that live PTO is for baling hay. It is too big to work conveniently in the garden.

So, in conclusion, think about hp requirements, fuel use, and future needs as you utilize your new land. Yes, the hundred series and thousand series tractors are probably better than the N series, but were still talking about incredibly well built machines regardless of the series.

If you are going to brush hog a few acres every year, disc a 1/4 acre garden, and do a few tractor rides with family, then save some money and get an N. If you are going to do some serious hobby farming on your 10 acres, including putting up some of your own hay, look at the hundred series or a 2000-3000 models.

As an additional note, last summer, a set of rims and tires around here cost about $1,200-$1,500. So look carefully at those tires, as others have said.

Good luck and have fun!

Colin, MN

 

[showcrop]

(quoted from post at 11:35:37 01/26/23) I don't see that anybody has explicitly said this, but the tractor with a 5spd and live PTO would not be an 860, but rather an 861. Just make sure when you make your purchase, you have the model correctly identified and that you've tested it. Live PTO means that horizontal transmission motion has stopped, but the PTO continues to operate.

I'll add my 2 cents to the conversation from my personal experience. My family farms 90 acres with an 8N (purchased in 2005) and a 961 diesel (purchased in 2013). We commercially raise fruits and vegetables and sheep for meat and breeding stock.

Fuel economy matters a lot to me and the tight margins I work with. Both of my tractors burn roughly 1 gallon/hr when doing heavy work, such as cutting or baling hay. Thinking about your hp requirements in the future is an important first step, particularly with today's high fuel costs.

The 8N is ideal for a large garden because of it's small size. There's plenty of equipment available for the 8N that can be used or modified for garden use. The 8N is also an ideal size for working in the woods because of its tight turning radius. It is also my go-to tractor for raking hay, cutting hay, or brush hogging. It's reliable, gets into tight spots easily, easy to work on, and parts are plentiful.

The 860 series tractor will be a bit bigger than the 8N and quite a bit heavier. It should have similar nimbleness of the N series. If your soil is heavy in your garden, though, this extra will matter in terms of soil compaction. Unless you get a diesel version, the 860 series will also consume quite a bit more fuel.

Our 961D is used primarily for baling hay on a New Holland square baler, as a loader tractor, operating a snowblower, and for moving really heavy loads, or operating equipment with hydraulics. The only need for that live PTO is for baling hay. It is too big to work conveniently in the garden.

So, in conclusion, think about hp requirements, fuel use, and future needs as you utilize your new land. Yes, the hundred series and thousand series tractors are probably better than the N series, but were still talking about incredibly well built machines regardless of the series.

If you are going to brush hog a few acres every year, disc a 1/4 acre garden, and do a few tractor rides with family, then save some money and get an N. If you are going to do some serious hobby farming on your 10 acres, including putting up some of your own hay, look at the hundred series or a 2000-3000 models.

As an additional note, last summer, a set of rims and tires around here cost about $1,200-$1,500. So look carefully at those tires, as others have said.

Good luck and have fun!

Colin, MN

I have a 960. it has the 5 speed and live PTO.

 

[bungerc]

Thanks everyone; I had stopped considering the N series tractors because I assumed that live hydraulics would be a big deal for me, and in my neck of the woods the prices for N series tractors and 6/8 series tractors are virtually identical; an N series in good physical-looking shape is often more expensive than a 6/8 series tractor that looks a little more rough. I think I'm somewhere between someone who is light duty where the N series would work and a serious hobby farmer, so we'll see where this lands me.

I think I've decided to bid on the 840 that's currently up for auction this weekend and go from there; she looks to be in decent but not perfect physical shape and the tires and rims look to be solid with some surface rust. Certainly doesn't sound like a bad tractor to cut one's teeth on if I'm lucky enough to win at a good price. Still certainly up for thoughts and opinions though!

 

[Bob in Tennessee]

I have both and like Colin said, use the N for the light work and the 800 for the heavy stuff.
Good luck at that auction and hope you get 'er!

 

[Colin King]

Thanks, Showcrop, Yes, I am mistaken about the lack of live PTO on the first generation hundred series. I believe it has to be combined with the 5spd transmission, though, doesn't it?

 

[Keith-OR]

I don't see that anybody has explicitly said this, but the tractor with a 5spd and live PTO would not be an 860, but rather an 861. Just make sure when you make your purchase, you have the model correctly identified and that you've tested it. Live PTO means that horizontal transmission motion has stopped, but the PTO continues to operate.

The 860 is a 5 spd with live PTO. I just replaced the 2 stage clutch disk in mine. I also have a 851 with 2 stage clutch. both are great tractors, I run a 5ft Howard tiller with my 860, but I have an industrial 172 engine in it. I also pull 6 ft bush hog (rotary mower).

 

[Sean in PA]

(quoted from post at 23:35:04 01/26/23) I don't see that anybody has explicitly said this, but the tractor with a 5spd and live PTO would not be an 860, but rather an 861. Just make sure when you make your purchase, you have the model correctly identified and that you've tested it. Live PTO means that horizontal transmission motion has stopped, but the PTO continues to operate.

The 860 is a 5 spd with live PTO. I just replaced the 2 stage clutch disk in mine. I also have a 851 with 2 stage clutch. both are great tractors, I run a 5ft Howard tiller with my 860, but I have an industrial 172 engine in it. I also pull 6 ft bush hog (rotary mower).

There's so much wrong with your post. Your first statement that a 5 speed and live PTO"would not be an 860, but rather an 861" is incorrect. Both the 860 and 861 had a 5 speed and live PTO. They were basically the same model from two different series.

You statement about your 851 having a two stage clutch is also incorrect unless it has been modified with the rear half of an 861. The 851 had a 5 speed transmission with transmission driven (non-live) PTO, and it had a single clutch.

 

[showcrop]

(quoted from post at 13:20:25 01/26/23) Thanks, Showcrop, Yes, I am mistaken about the lack of live PTO on the first generation hundred series. I believe it has to be combined with the 5spd transmission, though, doesn't it?

Yes, X6X designates 5 speed with live PTO.