Split Guide Valves on 2N

[Kevin Godshall]

Been working on my Dad's 2N front mount (won't start issue). Found low compression in #3 hole. Pulled the head and found everything to be in "visibly OK" order.

Got some recommendations to inspect the intake valve in question and also the guide.

Pulled the suspect and found out that he has a mushroom type valve with split guide. Once the top and bottom retaining clips were pulled, the valve and the guide pulled very easily out of the top. I called the neighborhood mechanic and he said I should not have been able to pull it out without using a valve puller.

Looking at the guide (I will try to post the pic), there was no seal whatsoever with it when it came out. I have searched online, but not found a seal that would fit it. On each side of the guide, there is a divider in the seal channel.

Does such an animal still exist as a seal for this type of guide? I see that the split guide is no longer available anymore. Should I just buy the solid body guide and replace the valve with the straight stemmed variety?

 

[Kevin Godshall]

One site advertised "valve locks" for sale, looked like horseshoe pieces that would fit, but not sure if they are different from the valve stem "keepers". (No description or size included).

 

[Hobo,NC]

Should I just buy the solid body guide and replace the valve with the straight stemmed variety

YES,,, BTW if it does not have adjustable lifters then you need them

 

[ZANE]

If you are thinking that the valve guide seal had something to do with the low compression you are wrong. It might possibly allow a bit of oil to be drawn into the cylinde past the guide but not a problem usually.

I would not replace that valve and I would not pull anymore of them till that one is put back in it's hole. Don't try to lap it or grind it. The stems have to be ground the same amount as the face or seat or you won't have any clearance in the valve stem and then the valve won't seat or seal off the compression. Intake valves as a rule don't give much problems. Most times if valves are the cause of low compression it is going to be the exhaust valve.

Put the valve and guide back in and check the tappet lifter to stem clearance. It should be something like .008 or a bit more but not much less or if none that can cause loss of compression because it can't close off.

If you can find a big fat O ring you could use it for a seal. Or you could even put a big fat bead of silicone glue RTV in the seal groove and the bore and put it back up. That would make a good substitute guide seal.

Zane

 

[Dunk]

(quoted from post at 21:55:52 03/13/09) If you are thinking that the valve guide seal had something to do with the low compression you are wrong. It might possibly allow a bit of oil to be drawn into the cylinde past the guide but not a problem usually.

I would not replace that valve and I would not pull anymore of them till that one is put back in it's hole. Don't try to lap it or grind it. The stems have to be ground the same amount as the face or seat or you won't have any clearance in the valve stem and then the valve won't seat or seal off the compression. Intake valves as a rule don't give much problems. Most times if valves are the cause of low compression it is going to be the exhaust valve.

Put the valve and guide back in and check the tappet lifter to stem clearance. It should be something like .008 or a bit more but not much less or if none that can cause loss of compression because it can't close off.

If you can find a big fat O ring you could use it for a seal. Or you could even put a big fat bead of silicone glue RTV in the seal groove and the bore and put it back up. That would make a good substitute guide seal.

Zane

I sure hate to do this...

But since it comes to King Zane, and his wondrous amazing talents, I don't think I can help it.

He can't fix a flat head Ford V8.

http://ytforums.ytmag.com/viewtopic.php?t=447893

But he is still the guru?

I had a flathead '53 Ford v8 pickup that would smoke rubber in 2nd gear.

Dual water pumps, oversize seat covers, and twin cigarette lighters.

 

[weaveman]

Make it easy on yourself and buy the parts here. At least the guys that wanna help can steer you towards the right parts. And before you start throwing money away on parts, do what the guys said and check the valve clearance. Otherwise, you're gonna find out when you buy a valve guide that you'll have to buy a valve that will go thru it, and then you'll find out why Zane and Hobo are telling you about adjustable lifters. These guys know what they're talking about, so listen and do and then ask what you don't know or understand. Throwing money at it will not solve the problem.

 

[Hobo,NC]

I guess sometimes one needs a bud to just talk it over with,,, B'N king has its disadvantage sometimes,,, Mite just b time to call it a nite,,, I am

 

[Dunk]

(quoted from post at 22:29:53 03/13/09)
I guess sometimes one needs a bud to just talk it over with,,, B'N king has its disadvantage sometimes,,, Mite just b time to call it a nite,,, I am

For the folks that only use classic...

And don't know the half of it.

http://ytforums.ytmag.com/viewtopic.php?t=444695

 

[Dunk]

(quoted from post at 22:29:53 03/13/09)
I guess sometimes one needs a bud to just talk it over with,,, B'N king has its disadvantage sometimes,,, Mite just b time to call it a nite,,, I am

I can't believe in blind worship, and living on faith.

My IQ is a tad highter than that.

Kinda like folks that know not to play in traffic live longer, than those that don't know better.

 

[Anonymous-0]

While you were doin'N them things with your v-8, ZANE was putt'N new sparkies in a round engine that required 128 spark plugs.

Sometimes the basics can just send an advanced engineer to the LUNIE Tune farm.

John,PA

 

[Bob Harvey]

How much highter?

 

[Bob Harvey]

Yep, you should just do what you think is best. Probly a good idea, is to do a complete valve job (kits avail. on this site) not free, AND you should get the adjustable lifters (an upgrade from original). I have a set of split guides and all the stuff that goes with, BUT, I didn't see any seals when I took it apart (don't think they were installed in '45 - don't know..don't care). Have fun with your 'N'

 

[Duner Wi]

All the parts in your picture carry Ford Car V8 part #s originally except for the valve, that is 9N specific AFIK. So if you want to keep it original you have options. Seal # is 8BA 6571. Anybody who sells V8 parts should know what you are talking about.

 

[Anonymous-0]

all 9n2n had the split guide, no seal. I have used ones if you really want some. They work ok, but not as good as the later stuff. I also have cast iron pistons, and race pistons.

 

[Kevin Godshall]

Thanks to all for their input and advice.

Back to the question..... should I have been able to just pull the valve/guide out by hand, or should I have needed a valve puller?

The intake is suspect, because during starting, I am getting serious blowback thru the carb, blowing gas (alot) thru the air intake. On my Fergie, this same symptom was a broke spring on one of my intake valves. When I called the neighborhood mechanic and told him I pulled the valve guide out by hand, his exact words were: "Well, there's your problem...."

On top of the lifters, there is a nut, on which the mushroom head of the valve "sits"/"floats". Is this an adjuster? On the valve that I took out, I tried to turn the nut, but the piece underneath turned with it. Maybe it just holds that piece in place? Does anyone have a link or a part number for what the adjuster I would need to buy?

Thanks again.

 

[Kevin Godshall]

(quoted from post at 04:54:13 03/14/09) All the parts in your picture carry Ford Car V8 part #s originally except for the valve, that is 9N specific AFIK. So if you want to keep it original you have options. Seal # is 8BA 6571. Anybody who sells V8 parts should know what you are talking about.

I found this part online (thanks) but..... it is a solid O ring, just like the ones sold here for the solid body guide. With the dividers in the grooves of the split guide, I can't see how this part would work. Wouldn't the "exposed" part of the seal either pull the rest out of the groove during insertion, or break at the high spots during installation?

 

[Hobo,NC]

(quoted from post at 13:01:08 03/14/09)
Thanks to all for their input and advice.

Back to the question..... should I have been able to just pull the valve/guide out by hand, or should I have needed a valve puller?

The intake is suspect, because during starting, I am getting serious blowback thru the carb, blowing gas (alot) thru the air intake. On my Fergie, this same symptom was a broke spring on one of my intake valves. When I called the neighborhood mechanic and told him I pulled the valve guide out by hand, his exact words were: "Well, there's your problem...."

On top of the lifters, there is a nut, on which the mushroom head of the valve "sits"/"floats". Is this an adjuster? On the valve that I took out, I tried to turn the nut, but the piece underneath turned with it. Maybe it just holds that piece in place? Does anyone have a link or a part number for what the adjuster I would need to buy?

Thanks again.

"should I have been able to just pull the valve/guide out by hand, or should I have needed a valve puller

If you are lucky it will come out EZ,,, I don't understand your mechanics statement about the puller,,, sometimes they can B a bear to get out then sometimes not

Sounds like you have adjustable lifters,,, it takes a special wrench to hold the lifter,,, are if you are lucky someone drilled a hole in the lifter bore so you could use a punch to hold the lifter while adjusting

You need a I&T FO4 repair manual while you got yer pocket book out

google Hobo Rosser if you need to talk by phone

 

[jon]

Sounds like you have adjustable lifters,,, it takes a special wrench to hold the lifter,,,

Just bought a set of these yesterday from nnalert's.
8WR1770 - $7.50
Years: 1939-52
Adjustable Tappet Wrench Set, 2 Wrenches

 

[Kevin Godshall]

(quoted from post at 13:30:29 03/14/09)

"should I have been able to just pull the valve/guide out by hand, or should I have needed a valve puller

If you are lucky it will come out EZ,,, I don't understand your mechanics statement about the puller,,, sometimes they can B a bear to get out then sometimes not

Sounds like you have adjustable lifters,,, it takes a special wrench to hold the lifter,,, are if you are lucky someone drilled a hole in the lifter bore so you could use a punch to hold the lifter while adjusting

You need a I&T FO4 repair manual while you got yer pocket book out

google Hobo Rosser if you need to talk by phone

Thanks. I just found pix online of the 2 different tappets (adjustable vs non adjustable). We do have the adjustable ones.

Turns out Father in law has the FO4, gonna pick that up this afternoon.

Will keep your info handy Hobo, thanks for the phone offer, may take you up on that in the near future.

Not sure when will be able to head back over (golfing trip to Va coming up soon), but will check valve clearance next time, posting back results when I get them.

 

[Anonymous-0]

I Noticed the comment about Zane installing 126 sparkplugs in a round engine. What kind of round engine uses that many plugs? The R-4360 had 28 Cylinders and 56 plugs. Former round engine driver.

 

[NOXJohn]

I called the parts department at this site last month looking for adjustable lifters. They had a problem with their supplier and have none in stock. They could not tell me when they may get some in. nnalert's has them and they are good quality made in USA. Call Don or Derrick and they will tell you what you need.