Welder review

[will-max dairy]

Been looking for a new stick welder to replace my Lincoln tombstone ac welder that doesn’t work anymore.
Found this Hobart 160 dc welder on sale at tsc so I ordered it.
To me while it may be made in china Hobart is still a top brand with a good warranty.
It’s only for around the house use and I feel more comfortable with a stick welder than a wire feed.
It’s small enough I can run it off my generator for use out in the field.
And it was on sale 50 percent off.
$500 list for $250.

So give it to me straight.
Is this a decent low cost welder for 4 times a year around the house use or at least better than some amazon never heard of the brand before item.

I would wager that your welder is the same as the Thunderbolt 160 (Miller) that I bought a few years back for about 550 bucks.

If I could have bought that welder for 250bucks, I would have jumped at it.

I know people that are happy with old "buzz-box" welders, and I know you're a retired electrical engineer; so you know the difference between the old transformer welders and the much-maligned "inverter" welders.

To each their own...

My brother has an old transformer welder in the shop at the home farm, where I grew up. Been reliable for... going on 50 years now. But... it still has duty cycle limits (albeit at higher amperages), and its inefficiency means that it needs 240VAC and it's on... like... a 50A breaker.

And... it's heavy; so he mounted it permanently in the shop and bought 100' of cable, so he can work outside on the concrete apron.

My Thunderbolt, like your welder can work on 120VAC, especially if you use 3/32" rod. I even bought some 1/16" rod for stainless, and our son-in-law was able to weld the stainless exhaust on our daughter's car. Don't need a zillion amps for that.

What sold me on going inverter and portable is... the ability to weld with 1/8" rod on farm equipment... away from the shop using our generator that has a 240V, 30Amp output; which is sufficient for these inverter welders.

If I had a working transformer welder, stationary in my shop; I certainly wouldn't scrap it. But...I also wouldn't be lugging it out to do portable welding; given the power requirements and weight.

So, yeah... with our little inverter welder, we've welded thin stainless exhaust tubing and also taken a 1/8" 6011 rod and absolutely buried a "frustration bead" into a sprocket on a 1-1/2" shaft on the haybine; when the old Gibbs keys didn't hold anymore. Also done some nice looking 7018 stuff in both 1/8" and 3/32"...

Only problems I've noticed are...

On the generator, starting an arc will make the generator grunt, even at 240VAC.

These welders will only make a DC arc; which can sometimes get you into "arc blow" problems, if you're trying to weld down in some crotch joint between two large pieces. A straight old AC transformer could actually do better at that; since the polarity of the arc changes cyclically and tends to center the arc in the joint; as opposed to drawing to one piece or the other. BUT, that is solvable with technique.

I would really like to see where the stated reliability differences between inverter and transformer welders come from. I think quite a bit of it is...

A... Survivor's bias... People think the old welders all lasted a long time, because they only see the ones that are left. The broken ones were scrapped a long time ago.

B... Portability... Nobody is slamming an old 200pound welder around on the regular... many of them sit safely in fixed locations, or on heavy carts...or on the back of some massive welding truck with a six cylinder motor/generator... and then they compare their reliability to your Hobart, or my Miller that gets tossed into the truck and lugged out to the field...operated from dicey, portable power sources, etc...

 

[will-max dairy]

Note that I say 240VAC... some say 230VAC... some say 220VAC... I say... whatever.

I typically talk in multiples of 120.

If you look at the ratings plate on most modern universal stuff; it can operate from 90-264VAC, so I really haven't cared to take a multimeter to a wall outlet lately.

 

[will-max dairy]

Also have a cheap little Lincoln MIG that a friend gave us. I'm definitely not too proud to point, squeeze and weld with a little bit of Argon/CO2 shielding gas.

Was sure handy when we built up the twine finger cam on our baler... took about 30 passes... and no slag to chip in between.

It's SUPER nice on sheet metal. About the same learning curve as using a hot glue gun.

I'm an "all hands on deck" type... I don't need to avoid MIG and chip slag just to show my supreme skillzzz.

 

[chvet73]

I’ve had my Hobart 180 MiG for 20 years. It’s been trouble free.

 

[Fritz Maurer]

Don't do that. Don't heat up your machine just to prove something to someone else, regardless of their opinion. No one is going to come racing over to your house with their checkbook if their advice causes it to burn up.

Just enjoy your welder, it looks like a nice little machine.

 

[Mark-Mi]

Input 220 v at 27 amps
Rated for 3/16 rod on 3/8 steel.
30 % duty cycle at 160 amps
100 % duty cycle at about 90 amps
Hobart 5/3/1 industrial warranty
For the price I will make it work.

You will be fine with those specs.

 

[farmersamm]

Maybe I'm being a little bit biased, transposing my feelings about the Handler series of wire welders to the little stick machine the OP bought.

I had 2 Hobarts fail in the identical manner.

Both welded fine until they didn't.

Running good.......................

Even when pushed beyond what it' supposed to weld. This material is too thick for a little baby welder.

When run on material it was designed for. Beautiful arc, nice welds.

Fast forward a few pounds of wire, AND I MEAN A FEW POUNDS.

Intermittent arc, virtually no control over heat input.

Will not run unless the voltage is turned to max, and wire speed(amps) through the roof. Pure crap.

I had a whole host of well meaning folks tell me it was the usual popular internet problems. Wire tension, roller tension, etc etc etc. When I knew damn well it had to be something in the wire feed control. Which means the PC board...........it's the only thing that controls wire speed.

I was able to find a copy of the actual Hobart tech manual for the machine. Same manual used in the repair shop. These are out there floating around on the internet, if you know where to look. Miller will not release these manuals anymore. Not terribly complicated.......just some basic checks to isolate the problem. Manual is set up in the module form. Ten minutes, and I was on the phone placing an order for a new board.

Back to normal............................

I run mostly self shielding flux core because I weld outside. THESE MACHINES ARE FINICKY WHEN IT COMES TO FLUX CORE.

There's 2 kinds of wire out there..................T-11.....and GS.

NR211-MP A Lincoln T-11 wire.

I'm not a fan of Lincoln consumables. To be fair, I haven't run the Hobart equivalent wire. But this tells ya that the Handler isn't T-11 friendly. Terrible puddle characteristics, huge porosity issues. It will run better on pristine bright shiny metal........which,, in most cases, ain't happenin'. I weld steel that's been on my racks for extended periods, and it gets rusty. I prep with a bead brush on an angle grinder......removing all loose rust. Flux core is made to handle small amounts of surface impurities. This particular wire ain't crap...........or the Handler is set up to run GS wire. I've had the GS/T-11 debate elsewhere, and more than a few guys generally come down on my side. The GS wire is more friendly.............albeit a single pass wire. Single pass has never been an issue with me. The only time I use wire is on thin material, otherwise it's strictly stick welding.

And...............GS wire will run beautifully over Galvy without grinding it off.

So......................................No..................I don't have terribly much good to say about Hobart wire welders. Possibly it's something endemic with these little cheeeezy machines. I might be happier if I stepped up to a real machine, but I can't justify the expense for a process I don't use much.

IMHO

 

[farmersamm]

Anyways.................switched back to my beloved GS after running a series of crapo welds................... Ground out the bad welds,, and got on with the rest of my day.

There's various flavors out there. Weldmark, Harris, Blue Demon. Give them a try, and you might be pleasantly surprised.

 

[farmersamm]

BTW..............................................

Panels, and tractors, don't get along well

Sumpin' to do with old age I guess. It looked like I had enough room to clear it.

 

[sandcastle1]

Lincoln is made in the USA.

 

[bc]

BTW..............................................

Panels, and tractors, don't get along wellView attachment 97170

View attachment 97171
View attachment 97172

Sumpin' to do with old age I guess. It looked like I had enough room to clear it.

Very nice welds. But now I'm getting cornfused. We are mixing apples and oranges, stick welders and wire welders. The only wire welder I could make work was my bro in laws big miller with gas when welding up a pickup bed trailer hitch.

Never could get any penetration with my little 120v craftsman wire welder using .35 flux core wire without gas. It would lay down all the melted wire I wanted but usually the wire speed was too fast for the heat it put out and it quit on me. Never could get it adjusted right. Got it in the barn holding a shelf down in case a tornado comes along.

 

[farmersamm]

Very nice welds. But now I'm getting cornfused. We are mixing apples and oranges, stick welders and wire welders. The only wire welder I could make work was my bro in laws big miller with gas when welding up a pickup bed trailer hitch.

Never could get any penetration with my little 120v craftsman wire welder using .35 flux core wire without gas. It would lay down all the melted wire I wanted but usually the wire speed was too fast for the heat it put out and it quit on me. Never could get it adjusted right. Got it in the barn holding a shelf down in case a tornado comes along.

I agree with you. It really isn't apples and apples. Said so in post #27. I was sort of worried that my poor experience might be causing me to be biased against all Hobart stuff.

Apparently the stick welder we're talking about has been discontinued. OP's machine.

Whoops, we couldn't find that.

I couldn't find it in stock at a few other vendors either. This might be a red flag, or not(shrug) Must be a reason they discontinued it.

The ORIGINAL Stickmate was a pretty nice machine...........mostly a rebadged Thunderbolt. I remember raising a red flag about the soon-to-be disappearance of both venerable models on another site. I knew the end of the great transformer machines was at hand. It was the last chance to buy one at that time.

I believe it's time to raise the red flag about the also-venerable Lincoln 125/225 machine. I just don't see them continuing it much longer. Profits are higher on the inverter machines. Less stuff inside an inverter machine, easy to outsource the electronics. Personally, I'd buy one before they're gone.

I'm disappointed in a lot of things associated with welding machines, and machine tools. The low end of the market is becoming ridiculously expensive compared to what you get. Expensive throw away welders from the big names, outrageously priced lathes/mills from the likes of Grizzly. It's a changing world that I don't like too much. Lot of people are being priced out of the market.

 

[farmersamm]

Lincoln is made in the USA.

Whoops, we couldn't find that.

Made in Mexico. The MIG isn't made here.

Whoops, we couldn't find that.

It appears the transformer stick machine still is.

Whoops, we couldn't find that.

The Lincoln equivalent to the OP's machine is made in Poland.

Hell............most of the stuff "Assembled in USA" is made from outsourced parts. Nothing's made here anymore for the most part.

If you're gonna charge "Made in USA" prices for outsourced crap.........................I really don't see why I shouldn't just go to the source, and buy a Chinese product for a lot less money(shrug)

In other words......................If you're gonna sell me cheap Chinese crap, I expect to pay a cheap Chinese price.

If you're in doubt about the country of origin of most industrial equipment, Grainger is an honest source for the information.

 

[wp6529]

I have a Miller Synchrowave 250 that I got new in 1995 or so. I love it, works great TIG and stick, but not exactly portable at near 500#. I recently got a Primeweld MIG 180 and have been very happy with it so far. I have it loaded with flux core for quick outdoor work and it has worked very well for that, particularly just running on 120V off a 50' 12ga extension cord as I just did a few days back for some quick trailer work on ~1/8" material. It's also been used fairly heavily for stick, running on 240V, but with me welding as well as retired pro welder FiL burning through a good amount of 7018 with no issues and no overtemp / duty cycle issues even outside in 100F weather. I've not had a chance to test it yet, but it also came with a spool gun for AL which is a nice extra.

There is plenty of quality stuff coming from China, and if you go with a China "name brand" that has been around for a bit and has some good independent reviews like the ones from Welding Tips and Tricks you're likely to be pretty happy with the machine as long as you get one in the proper size range for what you intend to do with it. Most any brand is going to perform poorly if you try to push it past what it's really rated for. I do note that the MIG 180 appears to be about the same machine as some no-name brands that claim 200+ so it appears to be rated more conservatively.

 

[Geo-TH,In]

For the $250 you could have replaced your Lincoln with a good used, or fixed your original. To say the little suitcase welders are for Hobbyist's is Very kind. Best if your time and projects are unimportant. "Lest we forget, the Bitterness of Poor Quality remains Long after the Sweetness of low Price is Forgotten."

My friend picked up a used Lincoln for $50 at a yard sale.
Some are selling used Lincoln AC-DC welders for around $250.
Craigslist has a

Schumacher 230 V, 230 Amps AC/DC Arc/Stick Welder - $200 Nashville.​

Never been used. If Nashville wasn't a 5 hour drive. I would get it to replace my Lincoln,
Schumacher has been making battery chargers for as long as I can remember.
A DC welder is a heavy duty battery charger with capacitors

 

[Turkeyfoot]

Been looking for a new stick welder to replace my Lincoln tombstone ac welder that doesn’t work anymore.
Found this Hobart 160 dc welder on sale at tsc so I ordered it.
To me while it may be made in china Hobart is still a top brand with a good warranty.
It’s only for around the house use and I feel more comfortable with a stick welder than a wire feed.
It’s small enough I can run it off my generator for use out in the field.
And it was on sale 50 percent off.
$500 list for $250.

So give it to me straight.
Is this a decent low cost welder for 4 times a year around the house use or at least better than some amazon never heard of the brand before item.

I have a Hobart Champion 145 welder/generator. It's 10 HP and 4,500 watts. Stick welder only. Had it for 8 years now and use it on average probably 4 or 5 times per year. Trouble free, good performance - no complaints.

 

[hoosier.hz]

I've never heard of that. Must have been tough getting the flux out between passes.

I have always had the easiest time getting slag off from 6011, especially 6013 rods. But 7018, which is what most everyone welds with and is standard for regulation is usually a chore to cleanup.

 

[Fritz Maurer]

I have always had the easiest time getting slag off from 6011, especially 6013 rods. But 7018, which is what most everyone welds with and is standard for regulation is usually a chore to cleanup.

Apparently it depends on what the application is. The real chore is doing something like a fillet weld with 6013 (which I love) and then trying to get a slag pit out of it. Best you can do is cover it up but never really know if the void is gone.

7018 hard to clean up? For real?

 

[hoosier.hz]

Apparently it depends on what the application is. The real chore is doing something like a fillet weld with 6013 (which I love) and then trying to get a slag pit out of it. Best you can do is cover it up but never really know if the void is gone.

7018 hard to clean up? For real?

I suppose it does depend. But yeah, it has been a while, but if memory serves me, for real.

 

[zuhnc]

7018, if done correctly, is practically self-cleaning, as to the slag cover. Most of the time, the slag just falls off. If your weld, even with 7018, has pits and inclusions in it, then it can be problematic to clean. I have some recently done 7018 welds with inclusions and slag in the weld; I will have to grind it out and do it right. Seems the base metal has some rust or other debris on it, which I failed to clean off.