What Would You Tell Her? Newbie Wants to Do Own Haying

[Ed S.]

We buy our milk and eggs from a local family that's in a difficult situation. Husband left, so it's the mom, three teenage daughters and two older sons (both have jobs but still live at home). They do a lot of truck farming in addition to the milk and eggs, which is how they make their living.

They have about 10 acres of pasture that they want to start haying on their own - they've been buying hay from me, which of course has a cost. The mom is frustrated they can't get anyone to do custom haying for them, so the field is basically laying fallow when it could be put to productive use (the cows are usually in a different pasture area).

They live about 1/2 mile off the road down a narrow, poorly-graded gravel lane that has a steep descent to a creek with an equally steep rise on the other side. It's all I can do in 4WD to bring a full load of hay on the trailer in to them. That's probably the main reason they can't get folks to custom bale, although a few have once or twice in the past.

They live too far away for me to try to attempt any custom work for them, and my work schedule precludes me doing any more than my own anyway.

So... she wants to buy a tractor and implements and do it themselves.

She initially was looking at one of those package deal Chinese tractors with implements, where you get a little 20-25 horse compact utility and "baby" haying tools (discbine, tedder, tiny round baler that makes 24" diameter bales). $25K or so, and she was going to borrow to cover the whole amount. I quickly talked her out of that!

I mentioned about buying used equipment, but pointed out several times that, new or old, the stuff *is* going to break down, and she needs to have a plan for that. None of them are mechanical from what I can see (there are derelict vehicles, mowers, etc. in the yard), which to me is a warning sign. She'd have to pay for repairs, and that gets spendy, not to mention they don't have a trailer to haul anything to a shop.

I think she could probably put together something like a Hundred Series, sickle bar, rake and older baler for maybe $4-5K, and if I felt they could handle the mechanical (and safety!) issues, I'd feel good about helping them locate and buy everything.

(as an aside, she mentioned a Ford 4000 [gas] for sale just down the road from them, but they're asking $5,700 for it, so I don't think that's a good option)

However...

Even buying used equipment, she said they would still have to borrow to pay for it, and I don't see any kind of "repair safety net" in place.

So, all signs seem to point to this being a Bad Idea for them. What I picture happening is they get the equipment (with a loan), and presuming they don't injure themselves learning how to use it, something inevitably breaks down and there's no money to have it repaired. So now they have a loan payment and equipment they can't use or afford to have repaired. And my schedule simply doesn't have the bandwidth to become their mechanic - I can barely keep up with my own!

I'm not sure how to advise them at this point.

Anyone dealt with a situation like this? What would you recommend they do? Any other options they could consider besides buying equipment (knowing they can't get anyone to do custom work)?

es

 

[L.Fure]

Maybe she should quit and find a job in town. Farming has been a rich mans hobby for a long time now, and getting worse.

 

[showcrop]

Since the daughters are teenaged, there is no need for mom to stay home, so with three full time incomes plus what the daughters bring in from truck farming they should be pretty prosperous. Trying to make a living from small farming needs input from outside.

 

[rankrank1]

Well borrowing money for all that is not going to likely be a wise financial decision for only 10 acres of hay. Seems a recipe for foreclosure and being homeless to me on what sounds like a barely scrimping by operation.

Seems it would maybe make more sense to either simply rotate pastures with better grazing methods so less hay is needed to be bought. Graze them instead of hay them. If fencing is needed those posts can be dug by hand and use T-posts in between the corners.

Or alternatively use the currently free labor source to hand cut some of the hay with hand scythes and make old time outdoor hay shocks outdoors - the way it was done for centuries prior to round balers and square balers. A baler is really only needed if they plan to try to sell some of the hay IMOP. Yeah this is a lot of work doing it this way with scythes and pitchforks, but if it keeps the farm viable and out of foreclosure while giving them all a place to live then it certainly makes more financial sense to me. Lets faceit…. this primitive way is practically the way many farms operated before WWII. Nothing says they even have to do all 10 acres. Simply do enough of it by hand to replace whatever hay they are purchasing right now and there is money saved right there for absolutely no capaital investment. Next step for me would be are any of the animals being fed with this hay being currently purchased work typed animals? If yes, then a horse drawn sickle mower and an old time ride the seat rake would be next for me while still still resorting to the hay shocks by hand outdoors.

 

[rankrank1]

Well borrowing money for all that is not going to likely be a wise financial decision for only 10 acres of hay. Seems a recipe for foreclosure and being homeless to me on what sounds like a barely scrimping by operation.

Seems it would maybe make more sense to either simply rotate pastures with better grazing methods so less hay is needed to be bought. Graze them instead of hay them. If fencing is needed those posts can be dug by hand and use T-posts in between the corners.

Or alternatively use the currently free labor source to hand cut some of the hay with hand scythes and make old time outdoor hay shocks outdoors - the way it was done for centuries prior to round balers and square balers. A baler is really only needed if they plan to try to sell some of the hay IMOP. Yeah this is a lot of work doing it this way with scythes and pitchforks, but if it keeps the farm viable and out of foreclosure while giving them all a place to live then it certainly makes more financial sense to me. Lets faceit…. this primitive way is practically the way many farms operated before WWII. Nothing says they even have to do all 10 acres. Simply do enough of it by hand to replace whatever hay they are purchasing right now and there is money saved right there for absolutely no capaital investment. Next step for me would be are any of the animals being fed with this hay being currently purchased work typed animals? If yes, then a horse drawn sickle mower and an old time ride the seat rake would be next for me while still still resorting to the hay shocks by hand outdoors.

 

[L.B,]

The findings from a statewide survey of Illinois Society of Professional Farm Managers and Rural Appraisers
members were released at the group's March 23 land values conference. Sale price of excellent productivity
farmland was estimated at an average of $11,600 per acre price on Jan. 1 and $11,000 per acre on Dec.
31.Mar 27, 2017 Theres no way you can milk and egg your way this day and age. The math does not lie. Theres
more going on then whats on the face of this problem. They should be able get some goverment assistance I
dont think you are getting the whole story. How anybody can farm on even $2000 an arce is beyond me. I
would guess that the way you talk their land may not be worth the $11K. but what is it worth and go from
there. 10 acs aint much hay to start with. The last thing they need is equipment, the math will never be
right. I dont know you personally Ed but from your posts you are envolved with a church and this would be a
great chance to help these folks out. I may be off on what I understand from your posts.

 

[Ed S.]

Thanks, all. There are extenuating circumstances that I didn’t include that preclude things like everyone getting jobs in town (or rather the girls, anyway). The mom really wants to make a go of it, but also realizes if she can’t, then they’ll have to move, etc.

I’ll percolate on what y’all provided - I’ll provide an update if/when I can.

es

 

[doublebass73]

(quoted from post at 09:58:44 06/30/18) Well borrowing money for all that is not going to likely be a wise financial decision for only 10 acres of hay. Seems a recipe for foreclosure and being homeless to me on what sounds like a barely scrimping by operation.

Seems it would maybe make more sense to either simply rotate pastures with better grazing methods so less hay is needed to be bought. Graze them instead of hay them. If fencing is needed those posts can be dug by hand and use T-posts in between the corners.

Or alternatively use the currently free labor source to hand cut some of the hay with hand scythes and make old time outdoor hay shocks outdoors - the way it was done for centuries prior to round balers and square balers. A baler is really only needed if they plan to try to sell some of the hay IMOP. Yeah this is a lot of work doing it this way with scythes and pitchforks, but if it keeps the farm viable and out of foreclosure while giving them all a place to live then it certainly makes more financial sense to me. Lets faceit…. this primitive way is practically the way many farms operated before WWII. Nothing says they even have to do all 10 acres. Simply do enough of it by hand to replace whatever hay they are purchasing right now and there is money saved right there for absolutely no capaital investment. Next step for me would be are any of the animals being fed with this hay being currently purchased work typed animals? If yes, then a horse drawn sickle mower and an old time ride the seat rake would be next for me while still still resorting to the hay shocks by hand outdoors.

This is the way I would approach it if I only had 10 acres and no money. The old fashioned way is still relevant.

 

[davpal]

The one thing that is lacking in this situation is a competent man to be there every day to do the work. Some people are simply not capable of doing what needs to be done in a situation to survive. They don't have the ability or funds to pull this off. The boys obviously can't do it or they would be doing it. Buying a $23,000 dollar toy package to bale hay is ridiculous. You can bale hay all day with a $1000 dollar Farmall H and a $300 dollar craigslist baler. We have both here. But we also have two men here that can run them. We only use them for straw once in a blue moon. You can do anything if you have the expertize. I see these situations all the time and am amazed that people come up with these pie in the sky ideas and expect the neighborhood to bail them out when it goes wrong. They shouldn't have started them in the first place. Two adult sons that can't bale hay. That right there is one of the biggest problems in this country. Lots of adult boys out there but lack of men that can do work and fix things. Talk her out of it. She's in a mile over her head.

 

[Ed S.]

Two adult sons that can't bale hay. That right there is one of the biggest problems in this country. Lots of adult boys out there but lack of men that can do work and fix things.

Don't disagree at all - the real problem here was lack of a Father/Husband who lived up to the name.

And yes, I really don't see it ending well, even if they pick up cheap, really used (wore out) equipment. I just don't see any way I can recommend them running their own equipment without racking up expensive repair bills or, more likely, all that equipment sitting, broken down, out in the field while they are still making payments.

*sigh*

Wish there was some better option for them (although the comment above about haying the really old, completely manual way, might be closest).

es

 

[L.Fure]

(quoted from post at 12:33:33 07/05/18)

Two adult sons that can't bale hay. That right there is one of the biggest problems in this country. Lots of adult boys out there but lack of men that can do work and fix things.

Don't disagree at all - the real problem here was lack of a Father/Husband who lived up to the name.

And yes, I really don't see it ending well, even if they pick up cheap, really used (wore out) equipment. I just don't see any way I can recommend them running their own equipment without racking up expensive repair bills or, more likely, all that equipment sitting, broken down, out in the field while they are still making payments.
*sigh*

Wish there was some better option for them (although the comment above about haying the really old, completely manual way, might be closest).es

Maybe she should give beekeeping a try. The honey market has been pretty good.
[/url]http://www.worldofbeekeeping.com/free-kit/?gclid=CjwKEAiAhaqzBRDNltaS0pW5mWgSJADd7cYDohaEM079u1MUt0D-YdN5EB5DNXqzgRaxMR6YdtegQxoCqszw_wcB

 

[R Geiger]

(quoted from post at 08:45:24 06/30/18) We buy our milk and eggs from a local family that's in a difficult situation. Husband left, so it's the mom, three teenage daughters and two older sons (both have jobs but still live at home). They do a lot of truck farming in addition to the milk and eggs, which is how they make their living.

They have about 10 acres of pasture that they want to start haying on their own - they've been buying hay from me, which of course has a cost. The mom is frustrated they can't get anyone to do custom haying for them, so the field is basically laying fallow when it could be put to productive use (the cows are usually in a different pasture area).

They live about 1/2 mile off the road down a narrow, poorly-graded gravel lane that has a steep descent to a creek with an equally steep rise on the other side. It's all I can do in 4WD to bring a full load of hay on the trailer in to them. That's probably the main reason they can't get folks to custom bale, although a few have once or twice in the past.

They live too far away for me to try to attempt any custom work for them, and my work schedule precludes me doing any more than my own anyway.

So... she wants to buy a tractor and implements and do it themselves.

She initially was looking at one of those package deal Chinese tractors with implements, where you get a little 20-25 horse compact utility and "baby" haying tools (discbine, tedder, tiny round baler that makes 24" diameter bales). $25K or so, and she was going to borrow to cover the whole amount. I quickly talked her out of that!

I mentioned about buying used equipment, but pointed out several times that, new or old, the stuff *is* going to break down, and she needs to have a plan for that. None of them are mechanical from what I can see (there are derelict vehicles, mowers, etc. in the yard), which to me is a warning sign. She'd have to pay for repairs, and that gets spendy, not to mention they don't have a trailer to haul anything to a shop.

I think she could probably put together something like a Hundred Series, sickle bar, rake and older baler for maybe $4-5K, and if I felt they could handle the mechanical (and safety!) issues, I'd feel good about helping them locate and buy everything.

(as an aside, she mentioned a Ford 4000 [gas] for sale just down the road from them, but they're asking $5,700 for it, so I don't think that's a good option)

However...

Even buying used equipment, she said they would still have to borrow to pay for it, and I don't see any kind of "repair safety net" in place.

So, all signs seem to point to this being a Bad Idea for them. What I picture happening is they get the equipment (with a loan), and presuming they don't injure themselves learning how to use it, something inevitably breaks down and there's no money to have it repaired. So now they have a loan payment and equipment they can't use or afford to have repaired. And my schedule simply doesn't have the bandwidth to become their mechanic - I can barely keep up with my own!

I'm not sure how to advise them at this point.

Anyone dealt with a situation like this? What would you recommend they do? Any other options they could consider besides buying equipment (knowing they can't get anyone to do custom work)?

es

Kick out the two grown sons and find a new husband with lots of money!