1961 CASE 530 Loader/Backhoe clutch problem

[Jacres]

I have recently purchased a 1961 Case 530 Loader/Backhoe (model 31) about a month ago. When I purchased it the clutch worked but was a little spongy in my opinion. The young man I purchased from said the clutch was a few years old and he did not use the tractor much since then. The first day I used it the clutch stopped working. As far as I know I have a standard clutch, shuttle shift with high/low and 4 gears to have 8 forward gears and 8 reverse. As of now I cannot engage the motor unless I turn the tractor off, put it in gear, and then start the tractor in gear. If I try to release the clutch as you normally would in while its running, the tractor does nothing(stopped and never moves). A few times I was able to tap the clutch many times and also ever slow slowly release it ( like 30 seconds to full release) and the tractor will SLOWLY start moving. I have tried to adjust the linkage to the clutch from the pedel and got it to engage a few times but feals like it is lower power. When you press the clutch pedal while the tractor is off the pedal feels strong, however, when the tractor is on, the clutch feels very soft. I did order a clutch, pressure plate, thowout bearing and bronze bushing and have the 4th of July weekend planned for my first ever tractor splitting! My question is, what went wrong with the original clutch that was replaced? Did the last guy not adjust the pressure plate? Do you even need to adjust the pressure plate. And is ther anything else it could be instead of the clutch? Thank you so much! Jake

 

[John Saeli]

Some of the symptoms make it sound like you have a Case-O-Matic Drive. With the parts book showing
either a 9-1/4 10 or 11 clutch, I don't see how you could have ordered a P/P w/ out 1st
disassembling. You are going to need to disassemble and inspect to find out what is wrong anyways.

 

[Joe (Wa)]

Does your pedal look like Pic 1?

Or like this pic 2?

 

[Jacres]

(quoted from post at 19:05:33 06/17/23) Does your pedal look like Pic 1?

<img src=https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cvphotos/cvphoto156642.jpg>


Or like this pic 2?

<img src=https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cvphotos/cvphoto156643.jpg>

Mine definitely looks like #1.

 

[Joe (Wa)]

#1 is a dry clutch. This is just a possibility since the clutch was recently replaced. Most early 530 have an internal hydraulic pump drive shaft that the splined end engages in the splined hub part of the pressure plate.

In assembling the engine block to the bell housing the pressure plate hub can butt up against the end of the hydraulic pump drive shaft and the splines fail to mesh. To force the mating with the fasteners deforms the pressure plate hub towards the flywheel and impacts the friction disc hub. That usually causes the clutch to lock up in the engaged position but I suppose the pressure plate or friction disc hub could break loose on one side and cock.

Not the clutch engagement problem but a very spongy foot clutch is often associated with the throwout yoke pivot breaking loose so check that also when you do the split.

 

[Jacres]

I will check all of that. Thank you so much. BTW, From what I could read up on, I believe that my clutch is 11 inch. I hope so!! fingers crossed. From som of the sales info I read, it appears as if this particular Loader/Backhoe was purchased primarily for backhoe work. The shuttle shift dry clutch package was offered for a machine that will be mainly backhoe use. The torque converter was offered for units that were primarilly loader use. Also, my loader bucker is not too practical for steady loading from stock piles but looks mor usefull for back filling. I will take a picture of the unit and post it. Thanks Again!

 

[Joe (Wa)]

Actually Case designed the shuttle & dual speed as a loader tractor. The shuttle provides an easy, quick shift from fwd to rev with one lever and reverse in any of the 8 speeds rev gear is 25% faster than the fwd gear. That means a faster loader working cycle as you push in slow and back out to the dump site in the faster rev gear. Everything happens by shifting one lever.

The COM was designed for heavy drawbar load as the locked up TC is more efficient and will handle a heavier load than a mechanical clutch.

 

[Jacres]

I was unaware of that. Thanks. I just know they offered a few different options in transmission or gearing. I do like having the shuttle; the hour I got to use it was nice to switch from forward to reverse in the same speed and not touch the gear shift!

 

[Jacres]

UPDATE!!! Well after taking off the #31 backhoe (A real Pain!) and spliting the tractor, I discovered that my 530 may not be a 530 after all. The clutch parts are not what I ordered (my fault) and are actually a 9.25" Case 320b style. And doing some more digging here it seams as if my tractor is a 320B with a 31 loader and 31 backhoe. So is this a '61 530 unit or not? Either way, the reason that the clutch is not working is because the throwout bearing was installed backwards with the bearing surface notch opposite of the pressure plate. This also caused the bearing spring to become damaged and get stuck insite the throwout bearing. Also, the stamped steel throwout fork is all worn down. I have the right parts on order but still wonder, is my tractor a first generation 530 or a 320b with a 31 loader and backhoe? I didnt think a 320 was made in 1961?

 

[Joe (Wa)]

This site has some irritating pop ups, just delete them and you will be on the page clicked. You don't have a 530CK as these parts differ and there is no spring. I may be able to find the same manuals on the CNHI site but don't have time tonight.

The 1st link is the parts manual for the 320B. Note it was built 1957 - 1959. (080)has the TO brg & fork, the spring is up one at (078[A].

The 2nd link is the early 530 built 1960 with later models starting during 1965. The parts appear the same but I don't have time to match up p/n's just now. (166) has the TO brg, fork & spring.

Click on the parts views to enlarge, maybe you can find something in these manuals to id your tractor. Posting pics of the tractor may help also.
https://spare.avspart.com/catalog/case/66959/4006921/

https://spare.avspart.com/catalog/case/60192/

 

[Jacres]

Thanks for the links! Looks like I got some reading for tonight! I will try to send some pictures over the weekend.

 

[Joe (Wa)]

If you have a 320B with internal hydraulic pump it should be like this 1956 310 with the tachometer drive hump on the cover. This was common hyd pump drive in 1950's

320B internal hydraulic pump drive with tach drive.

The early 530 with internal hydraulic pump drives have no tach drive hump in the cover. The few early 530 I have been around had tach drive off the generator. sn 8191147 is 1962 and sn 8262800 is 1965.

 

[Jacres]

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[Joe (Wa)]

This post was edited by Joe (Wa) on 07/07/2023 at 10:48 pm.

 

[Joe (Wa)]

Well not 320B or any of my 50's tractor clutch jobs that I remember. There is something wrong and a reverse installed bearing and/or a broken tension spring has nothing to do with it. If you took both of them out and threw them away the clutch would be engaged permanently, you just wouldn't be able to disengage it.

Lets forget the tractor model for now. The design of the release bearing is for the notch on the inner race to be in between two pressure plate levers which turns the entire bearing along with the pressure plate and the drive shaft all the time engine is running. When the foot clutch forces the fork into the back (outer race) of the bearing it actually becomes a functioning bearing. This design is to prevent bearing wear by reducing the time the bearing is actually performing the normal function of a bearing.

I have changed these bearings when there was a very weak or broken spring. The notch is usually worn off flush. There will be some slippage wear between the bearing inner race and pressure plate levers but that has no impact on the clutch function. With the bearing notch turned opposite the pressure plate, the notch can not contact the spring but may contact the fork ends. The fork cannot contact the spring unless the stabilizer bolt area is severely worn and/or the pivot is worn through or breaking loose around the rim. The spring has a large i.d. end and a small i.d. end with small end positioned up against the shaft shoulder in front of the hydraulic pump drive cover seal.

It is way past my bedtime but I can't see anything I have written above that can prevent the engine clutch from being engaged, in fact, it can only impact disengaging.

Is that the pilot bushing out of the crank?

Does your tractor have a hand clutch lever here?

 

[Jacres]

I do not have a hand clutch. And that bushing is actually one I bought and was making sure it fits, not sure how I will get the old one out but the old one looks to be in good shape. From what I can tell the previous owner istalled the throw out bearing backwards. This also caused the spring to become lodged in between the throw out bearing and the shaft, thus slopping out the bearing inside diameter by approximately 1/8".

This post was edited by Jacres on 07/08/2023 at 07:48 am.

 

[Jacres]

And someone tried building up the fork pads by welding on them!

This post was edited by Jacres on 07/08/2023 at 07:53 am.

 

[Joe (Wa)]

I have a commitment today so I am going to hit this quick with a possibility and come back tonight you have other ideas. I'll do pics later if needed. Maybe someone else will jump in with some answers.

I had forgotten you said it was shuttle and it is indeed shuttle appears to be either early 430 0r 530, we can figure out which later as they have different engines and other major parts. The TO brg, fork, and spring are the same for both models and probably most the rest of the clutch asm but I don't have time to match other part nrs now. (430 parts link below) There is no internal hyd pump installed in your tractor but still has the drive assembly with shaft splines that mate up in the pressure plate hub splines.

So enter the TO brg, fork, and linkage adjustment are now relative. It appears that the former owner had a slipping clutch problem and went the wrong direction in trying to rectify it. Foot pedal linkage should be adjusted so the pedal free travel is 1 to 1-1/2 before the fork pads contact the TO brg. If that TO brg was installed backward, the wear shown on the outer race was from contact with the pressure plate levers, with that and the build up on the forks pads and your reported spongy foot pedal it is possible that the TO brg pressure on the pressure plate levers was enough to allow the friction disc to slip enough to glaze the friction surfaces to the point that it can not overcome the inertia and move the tractor.

Sorry about the lack of clarity, grammar and spelling, need to get on the road. L8r joe
https://spare.avspart.com/catalog/case/56605/

 

[Jacres]

NO PROBLEM! I really appreciate all your help Joe!

 

[Joe (Wa)]

You may have already found it but if you missed it the early 430 & 530 torque tube oil level dipstick is here, fill through the breather pipe. Hy-Trans is usually recommenced. Later 430/530 dipstick was moved to a plug under the right side of the gas tank.

You're on page 4 in the classic forum that some of us old geezers still use. When you get done with the clutch I would recommend you start a new post with some pics to ID the tractor and you will get more responses if you're post is not buried on page page 5 or 6 or whatever. I added a link below as an example of an ID my tractor post that will get responses from experienced people some of which will probably have the same tractor you have. In this thread mEl is a long time Case mechanic, now retired. If there is anything about these tractors that he doesn't know, it's not worth knowing.

Let us know how the clutch thing shakes out or if you think I might be able to help with it. I am going to bang on this engine block to bell housing mating as it is a common and expensive error that people make and post that their new clutch will not disengage.

The pic is an older tractor but has the same clutch/dive shafts configuration as your tractor. When you're mating up the engine block/bell housing and get close to the gap in this pic and it hangs up and will not close up. The pressure plate hub splines and hydraulic pump asm drive shaft splines are not aligned close to mesh. The hub is butted up against the end of the shaft, check your alignment, move the engine fwd slightly, turn the crank and try the mesh again. Keep doing it until it falls together. I been on this forum since about 1999 and I'll bet there have been 50 plus posts of destroyed pressure plates and sometimes the friction plate along with it b/c people get stuck here and use the fasteners to close up the gap.

I use a small shop crane on the wheeled engine front end and a hydraulic table under the torque tube. Alignment easy and in minutes.

https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cgi bin/viewit.cgi?bd case&th 354669