706 282D - head gasket issue again

[dhermesc]

We have an early 706 with 282 diesel. Tractor runs strong and had very little run time the last 20 years.

We bought and my son was using it for hay running both small square and big round balers. Last summer it blew the head gasket after about 20-30 hours of use - it was dribbling water down the side of the block. We bought it to an IH mechanic that has about 30 years of experience at the local IH dealer that takes on weekend projects. He has a pretty good reputation but it didn't help us. He replaced the head gasket without machining the head and it blew again in less than 8 hours. It was blowing air out the side. We pulled the head and sent it off to a machine shop and they said it should have been planed before it was installed last time. They planed it straight it and we installed it and used it about 100 hours without issue. Son has been clearing brush with it and now it appears to have blown again and is leaking coolant both externally and internally. I am assuming the block needs to be planed. Can that be done without pulling the engine completely from the tractor?

Son has been plugging it in and we have NOT been using starting fluid.

 

[used red MN]

You did the head gasket install yourselves? If you have 10,000 plus posts on here if many of them were made on the IH forum I would think you would have picked up that after install those heads need re-torqued after the engine has been warmed up. Did you do that? Also proper sleeve protrusions is also critical on those engines.

 

[urbancase]

might be something to look at, if it has a 282 motor is it the slip fit sleeves my 706 is early one and have them, I did an in frame on the motor and the sleeves if I remember right took 500 lbs to install and the sleeve protrusion between .001 to .003 between all 6 of the cylinders, but check the book to make sure been a few years since i did it. might not be it but something to check. good luck

 

[the tractor vet]

NO you can not surface the deck in the tractor . The engine must come all the way down to the bare block . Then once that is done then the counter bore must be recut . Then you need to install new sleeves as once ya pull them ya sure as heck don't want to reuse the old ones . and the sleeves must fit the bore as not all the holes will be the same size and sleeves will have to match bore class. This is when a vary fussy machinest that has sever OCD will get each one set dead on the money . And now i only know of one of them left . I just learned that here we are down to Two left in the county and only one that i would trust. we use to have a wide choice . My one friend had the engine shop to die for with the best of the best to work with . He's gone now and i did not have the money to buy it as he offered it to me but sorta hard to come up with a quarter Mill . I knew how and have many times run everything he had , He ran a one horse operation and was always swamped and many times i would take something up and he would say Well you know where the machine is and how to run it DIY it i got to get these jobs done and out today. Or he might say here you do this and i''l do that line bore as he was way faster at setting up a line bore then i was . Between the EPA and other Gov. bodys is part of the reason for shops to close .

 

[rustred]

nope, that is a big job. i will be replacing the head gasket on my 282 here shortly, once i get the last original victor gasket from olsons gaskets. i wanted 2 but he had only the one left. all the rest are felpro junk. i have replaced quite a few of these head gaskets. and if this guy is a thirty year experience guy these engines could be way before his time. they are from the 50-60 years ago time period and most are gone now. but its pretty straight forward job. plus the retorque and valve set after running at operating temp on the guage for an hr. or so is important. you will get close to another 1/4 turn on the head bolts. i go to 120 ft. lbs. on retorque. book says 115 ft. lbs.

 

[the tractor vet]

Yep . I totally agree on Fel PRO JUNK Now it has been a good while since i have been into a 282 but sill remember the how to's and what fors. . And yes on the 120 Ft. Lb.'s .. may add one more thing here a BOTTOMING 1/2 inch tap and Chase the holes all the way to the bottom , then inspect each flippen head bolt and look for stretched threads where the thread meets the shank . Some people just slap things together in and out get that job out of here . I much perfer to make darn sure that if something is not wright i want it to happen at the shop not out in the field and have a come back . You can do 10000 jobs perfect and not a word is said but one tiny mess up and EVERYBODY hear about it. On the felpro issue i had this with them and even called them and talked to some snot nose kid that told me i did not know how to install them and torque them down correctly and my torque wrench was not reading correctly . My wrench went in every year to be checked and recal. if needed and was cert. for a plus or minus 1 % , don't know about you but i was happy with it sure a lot better then a Harbor freight one , those are JUNK. . Now as to his problem i know it is hard to check the deck with the sleeves in BUT it can be done with a true gauge bar and a dial indicator Set up and held in place on both ends . You can do the straight line and the X pattern inbetween the sleeves and check stand out .

 

[dhermesc]

I talked with my son - he did NOT retorque the heads after some use as I had told him he needed to. A mechanic that I trust advised me that he doubted the deck was an issue if it held for 100 hours - especially since the head was not retorqued and it appears to leak a different way in a different place every time. We also reused the old head bolts which may or may not have been a contributing factor.

We are going to try this again - pull the head have it checked again at a machine shop. I will see about borrowing a straight edge to check the deck. Re install it with new gaskets - copper coat and new head bolts - and then retorque them at least once after the tractor has a few hours on it. This was the first time we had ever replaced a head gasket on a diesel engine and doing it a second time will probably cut the process time in half (or more) and get a few more things right the first time.

I talked to the local IH dealer and they said if they pulled the engine to have the deck machined we just as well do an overhaul - about $9000 if nothing extra pops up.

 

[560Dennis]

Are you using starting fluid to start this tractor ?

 

[the tractor vet]

9 Grand , maybe you should throw it in the pick up and bring it over it sure would not cost anywhere cvlose to that figure evn if you air freighted it over an back . These dealers are insane i don't care they are rippen everybody off , Car , truck tractor what ever . And the guy doing the work is only making chump change . They wonder why that can't get KIDs into the trades . YOu become a mechanic you are the one that lays out the bucks for the never ending tool buying . ou look at what they are layen out these days on tool boxes then look at the price of tools off the Snap on truck or Mac. Matco . It never ends Jusst when you think you have everything here comes a job that you need that one and only tool for that job and next year ya need another . . NOW tryen to check the deck with the sleeves still in can be down BUT you have to do it far different then when your working with a bare block . I have my gauge bar and made up a dial indicator set up and 1 2 3 blocks . is it 100% welllllll lets just say it helps for a quick check and is somewhat close . So this guy you paid good money to NEVER checked the bolts , probably never chased the bolt hole in the block with a 1/2 13 BOTTOMING tap . sound like the one guy around here that use to do outside work that ended up coming to me . What he did was just unreal . If your going to do this as a DIY then ya need to have a GOOD TORQUE WRENCH , NOT some Craftsman Harbor freight junk , Yep the good ones today cost big bucks , if you can find a Snap on A Proto , Mac , and one that goes to 250 FT.LB. have it sent out and get recaled. , YEp that is expensive . Ya need a 1/2 13 bottoming tap to chase the threads in the block and a 1/2 13 die to chase the threads on the bolts . look at each bolt where the threads meet the shank . This is where you will find them stretched if they are stretched . If your thinking of BUYING all new bolts then best take your inhaler , Nitro tab, and defibrillator with you and someone to drive you to E/R . I have given thought to putt in STUDS in . Just never got around to doing one on my own before doing it for a customer . When installing the head use guide studs one up front and one in the back. This will hold the head gskt. inplace and set the head down on and hold it from moving while you pt the bolts in and snug down a couple . Then ya torque the head down in no less then three steps . Then before you think your done on the last step go back over the center six one more time . Also. have your rocker arm adjusting screws all backed off so no valve spring tension is pushing back . Look hard for a Victor OEM gskt as they did make two the one was no better then the fel pro . Can't give you the old Number like a dummy i got rid of a lot of my old books when i closed up and went into semi retirement .

 

[dhermesc]

When we did it the first time we chased the threads and made our own studs - but had an issue setting it as the fuel tank was in the way. We ended up removing the fuel tank after bolting the head down when we painted the tractor. This time the fuel tank gets removed before attempting to set the head.

Who do you go to get a decent head gasket?

We were kind of surprised the first time as we never broke a single bolt. Should be even easier this time as a lot of antiseize was used when assembled last summer.

 

[caterpillar guy]

I'm with TV. I would also check the sleeve height to the deck. IF off more than like a .001or .002 from one to the other it is in for problems as the low sleeve will not seal to the head. I did my D-361 about 40 years ago with no problems with the head though it is not a 282. The same principles are involved.

 

[the tractor vet]

Yea , that pesty fuel tank . On them i drop the heat shield take the bolts out of the tank support on the bell housing and lift it enough to get a 4/4 or 3/3 what ever i grab . The studs i use do not stick out above the bolt holes in the head and require a screw driver to get them up and a magnet to lift them up and out . They are about over all 2 1/2 to three inches long . Before i got old and febal i use to remove and set them by myself same as setting a 6-71 Detroit head or them big 534 Ford gas heads Or pulling a half dressed 289-302 out of a Mustang by hand . Now my back is my alarm clock and after the Dr.'s got done with the slice and dice fifty pounds of cat litter about does me in . No more a 100 Lb ft weight one in each hand from the ground up on the 1066 , Now it is load them in the skid steer and slide them on out of the bucket .