8N Just Split Tractor & Rebuildin Sherman Step Down w.Ca

[K-n-L Country Farms]

Well finally got what we're pretty sure is a Sherman Step Down Trans. Thanks to quite a few guys on here, they helped us avoid getting ripped off on a couple shermans for sale which the sellers were saying was a combination step up step down but turned out was another step up only trans since could faintly see the grey paint in a few areas and we definitely don't want another one since our 8n came with an F&T step up trans which we just removed and are going to sell.

Below are the pics we took today and my question is this a step down only trans and if you look at the pic which shows some little pieces, are these rollers out of a bearing and where is the part located in this transmission that they came from.

 

[Den N Ms]

KnL,Yes that looks like it is a cable shift step down,by the large dia gear on the output shaft.The needle bearings look like they came out of the input shaft bearing.

 

[K-n-L Country Farms]

(quoted from post at 18:49:17 04/07/16) KnL,Yes that looks like it is a cable shift step down,by the large dia gear on the output shaft.The needle bearings look like they came out of the input shaft bearing.

Thanks and I'm having a very difficult time locating parts.... I can find rebuild kits that say they're for the Sherman Combo but I cant find any that specify they are for the Sherman Step-Down only transmission. I have searched John Smith's information as well other sites which provide info and ones that have Sherman parts but no luck for anything on the Step-Down.

Do you know if the input shaft bearing in a Combo is the same as what's in a Step-Down?

According to John Smith's info, the input shaft bearing for the Sherman Combo is part number ND 3210

 

[Den N Ms]

KnL,Are you talking about the Torrimgton needle bearing that goes in the input shaft?I believe it is the same as the step up uses.If so I think it is the same bearing that a Delco 25si and 30si alternator uses,if I remember correctly.What kind of shape is the shaft that goes into that bearing?I can't tell in the pic.

 

[K-n-L Country Farms]

(quoted from post at 19:36:58 04/07/16) KnL,Are you talking about the Torrimgton needle bearing that goes in the input shaft?I believe it is the same as the step up uses.If so I think it is the same bearing that a Delco 25si and 30si alternator uses,if I remember correctly.What kind of shape is the shaft that goes into that bearing?I can't tell in the pic.

I just uploaded another picture where I labeled most of the parts/sections.

When you said input shaft, are you referring to the part that I labeled as "H" ?

If so, it looks to be in good condition meaning I didn't see any badly worn or damaged teeth.

I was going to buy a copy of FO4 manual but looks like it only covers the Sherman combo and possibly the step up.

Is there a manual for the Sherman Step-Down transmission?

 

[Den N Ms]

KnL,Yes H,Where the Torrington Neddle goes in inside E and it looks like the old bearing is still on the shaft D.What kind of shape the shaft in under D.I'm thinking all the bearing are the same as the step up.See if D is a Torrington BH 1412X

Step up parts
Bearings used in the Sherman Step-Up transmission -
Input shaft ball bearing - MRC 208MG
Mainshaft needle bearing - Torr BH 1412X
Output shaft cup - Timken 25820
Output shaft cone - Timken 25877
Countershaft bearings - Torr BH1616X
Top shifter shaft seal C/R 6203
Front seal 8N7052A

 

[K-n-L Country Farms]

(quoted from post at 20:17:39 04/07/16) KnL,Yes H,Where the Torrington Neddle goes in inside E and it looks like the old bearing is still on the shaft D.What kind of shape the shaft in under D.I'm thinking all the bearing are the same as the step up.See if D is a Torrington BH 1412X

Step up parts
Bearings used in the Sherman Step-Up transmission -
Input shaft ball bearing - MRC 208MG
Mainshaft needle bearing - Torr BH 1412X
Output shaft cup - Timken 25820
Output shaft cone - Timken 25877
Countershaft bearings - Torr BH1616X
Top shifter shaft seal C/R 6203
Front seal 8N7052A

Will have to check it out and see how the shaft looks.

I tried searching the BH 1412X but nothing came up with the X on the end... there was a bh 1412, bh 1412OH, and a couple others though.

Well it's heading toward midnight here in Ohio and so gotta hit the sack. Will get back to you as soon I check on the shaft and get a few other parts taken off so I can inspect them.

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 23:46:07 04/07/16)

(quoted from post at 20:17:39 04/07/16) KnL,Yes H,Where the Torrington Neddle goes in inside E and it looks like the old bearing is still on the shaft D.What kind of shape the shaft in under D.I'm thinking all the bearing are the same as the step up.See if D is a Torrington BH 1412X

Step up parts
Bearings used in the Sherman Step-Up transmission -
Input shaft ball bearing - MRC 208MG
Mainshaft needle bearing - Torr BH 1412X
Output shaft cup - Timken 25820
Output shaft cone - Timken 25877
Countershaft bearings - Torr BH1616X
Top shifter shaft seal C/R 6203
Front seal 8N7052A

Will have to check it out and see how the shaft looks.

I tried searching the BH 1412X but nothing came up with the X on the end... there was a bh 1412, bh 1412OH, and a couple others though.

Well it's heading toward midnight here in Ohio and so gotta hit the sack. Will get back to you as soon I check on the shaft and get a few other parts taken off so I can inspect them.

It's a generic inch series drawn cup full complement open end needle roller bearing. Torrington is now owned by Timken but there are plenty of equivalents - e.g. Koyo, National, and INA . The OD is 1-3/16" and the 1412 number means it is 14/16 (7/8") bore by 12/16 (3/4") long. Berings with an OH suffix means the cup has an oil hole in it. I have never come acroos the X suffix - perhaps it was intended to mean "either" style.

TOH

 

[Mdparrott]

Check the input shaft for wear where the rubber seal rides with a caliper. It may have more wear than it appears and could keep it from sealing properly.

John Smith is an excellent source of parts and info - I've bought several parts from him.

Red Rock manufacturing in Iowa has bearing sets for Sherman's. I bought a complete Sherman bearing kit from him. He should be able to tell you what bearings cross.

http://redrockmfg.com

 

[K-n-L Country Farms]

(quoted from post at 20:17:39 04/07/16) KnL,Yes H,Where the Torrington Neddle goes in inside E and it looks like the old bearing is still on the shaft D.What kind of shape the shaft in under D.I'm thinking all the bearing are the same as the step up.See if D is a Torrington BH 1412X

Step up parts
Bearings used in the Sherman Step-Up transmission -
Input shaft ball bearing - MRC 208MG
Mainshaft needle bearing - Torr BH 1412X
Output shaft cup - Timken 25820
Output shaft cone - Timken 25877
Countershaft bearings - Torr BH1616X
Top shifter shaft seal C/R 6203
Front seal 8N7052A

Great.... we found out that the roller bearing (at least what was left of it after it broke into pieces) was removed and someone had previously made a brass sleeve for location "D". So the brass sleeve slid into the end of location "E"

After using a gear puller to remove the brass bushing, we were definitely relieved to see that the shaft was in really good condition...we set up the shaft in my dad's lathe and ran a dial indicator on it which showed everything was within .001-.002

Inside of location "E" was surprising to see that there wasn't any damage since it only had brass spinning inside there where it is hardened steel.

I talked with Jon Smith from old ford tractors.com and he confirmed that a Sherman Step-Up rebuild kit can be used for a Sherman Step-Down transmission and so I called Phil Smith at Red Rock Mfg.com and after doing a little searching came up with the same that the step-up rebuild kit could be used and so I went ahead and ordered the kit.

The kit costs 140.00 total and so no tax and no shipping costs.

We got the Sherman Step-Down for approx 500.00 since both of us said no to ebay and paypal who's gouging on the fees.... ebay takes 10% of the selling cost and 10% of the shipping cost. Then after selling an item on Ebay you get an email from paypal who tells you what amount they are taking from the selling cost of the item and so YES even though the transmission's descriptions were a little bit shady and we could have filed a claim against the seller who had this transmission taken apart but yet didn't say or show in the pictures what were obviously seen pieces of roller bearings, it was still worth it when the purchase price, rebuild kit, and misc costs will total 675.00 which is a realistically reasonable price for these

 

[K-n-L Country Farms]

Was just wondering how this Sherman step-down transmission gets its oil... there is only a drain plug at the bottom of the transmission and so nowhere at the top to fill it with oil once you have it installed.

There are 4 bolts that secure it to the 8N's transmission but these bolts are located on the inside of the Sherman step-down transmission and protrude outward to get bolted to the front of the 8N's transmission thus gotta have the case split on the step-down transmission to install the back half of it first, and so you can't prefill the Sherman with oil before installing it...at least not that I can see or that installation instruction have noted.

Obviously have read John Smith oldfordtractor.com's step-by-step instructions for installing a Sherman step-up (which is the same for a step-down only transmission) but I didn't notice anywhere he mentioned about filling these with oil or how they got oiled.

Is it possible that the 8N's transmission oil will somehow enter the Sherman step-down transmission from where the 2 are joined together?

 

[Mdparrott]

(quoted from post at 06:24:55 04/11/16)

Is it possible that the 8N's transmission oil will somehow enter the Sherman step-down transmission from where the 2 are joined together?

Yes. It shares oil with the transmission sump.

After you install the Sherman, you pre-fill it with oil before you put the input shaft and cone on.