I know we've all heard about the emails "where we'll send our shipper/agent just email us the address for the cashiers check, but my question is a little different. And those scams are about getting your info. I'm selling a forklift the price is only a few grand. A business owner and his son looked at it. We arrived at a price a few days later via email and phone. he said he would pay with cashiers check or money order or wire transfer. (any of which can now be scammed). I chose CC and he said he would mail it so it had time to clear. He has been trying to arrange a hauler and kind of wanted me to haul it but I'm not really equipped for that. He is about 2 hours away. Sun he called and was about 1 hour away and offered to meet me with the check but I was not home. One of my buddies has me all worried about the payment, now. He says he would never take anything but cash. Its kind of hard to tell a business to bring you thousands in cash. But, really, he said it was drawn on a local bank and when the driver gets here can't I call them and check it? After all, how is a business man supposed to go out and make such purchases. I know cash is king, too. We've spoke several times on the phone and its kind of too late to mail it since his hauler would probably beat the check here. I don't think everyone is a crook are they?
- Thread starter redtom
- Start date
Your situation seems completely different from the overseas or long distance scammers, have you looked his business up in the yellow pages and called during business hours and talked to someone you recognized? Is there a BBB or Chamber of Commerce in the Town he is from? Call the issuing bank and give them the details off the check, what makes you suspicious, do they operate on cell phones and e-mail only -- do they refuse to give a business hours land line number? Should be pretty easy to check them out.
Flurette Farm
Member
From what you've said I think you're going to be fine. He had to buy the cashiers check from his bank, check on that with a phone call if your concerned.
At some point you're going to have to trust someone.
At some point you're going to have to trust someone.
Well, he said he would mail it, so why did it not end up in your mail? A cashiers check is usually good, I have taken them before and no problem. Just let him know that no check no ship. tell him you want check a few days before he picks it up. I've heard that sometimes your bank will cash it, then about a week later they say N.G. and you are left holding the bag. If you get it in hand , you CAN call the bank to verify it, make sure you get the right branch. Good luck. Kinda sounds a little fishy, since he didn't send you the check.
A cashiers check is no safer than a personal check,there both checks. Locally i will take a personal check,otherwise i make them wait till it clears.It should clear in 4 days,but my bank sends them back through the system a second time if they bounce without telling anyone.So i ask for a 10 day clearing period.Most people won't pay cash for large purchases,they think you don't own it or stole it if you want big cash.Also if you draw out over 5 grand the bank alerts the Irs.Also if you accept over 5 grand you are supposed to file a 1099 on the person by law.
Most banks won't give you somone elses info over the phone.My bank won't tell me if a check is any good. They say it could be good now and bad five minutes later or the account could be closed.Your local bank doesn't have anything to do with clearing a check.Ckecks go to a large clearing house sometimes not even owned by the bank.
Kansas Cockshutt
Member
Go with him to a local bank and have him get the cash.
Owen Aaland
Well-known Member
This is where a cashiers check check is different from a personal check. A cashiers check is drawn on the banks own account, not the businesses account. They have already collected the money to cover the check. What you need to be concerned about is whether or not the CC is counterfeit. Once you have the check in hand the bank can tell you whether or not it has already been presented for payment.
[email protected]
Well-known Member
I have worked several check fraud/scams over the years. Here's my thoughts. If you are willing to accept a check as a form of payment, thats great, but do not let the goods leave your sight until the check clears. Most banks are now 10 to 14 days to completely clear. You can call his bank to verify funds however, 14 days hold until its cleared. I don't know of anyone who would not appreciate that.
Some things to look at. Is it drawn on a local bank to the buyer? Is it completely typed out with a signature stamp? If there is ink from a pen on the check, is it black? I would say 80% of the fraud cases I have worked, the ink on the check was blue.
Its become easy to duplicate bank items with the latest in color laser printers. Use common sense, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Thats why you wait for clearance on checks.
Another thing to do, document the license plate and a description of the vehicle picking up the item. If for any reason you have issues later, that plate number is golden. It proves the vehicle was at your location and the registered owner info can be pulled from the BMV file. We can now pull the photo of the registered owner on our data terminals. Not all states, but ours does.
Once your item leaves your view, its not easy to retrieve. Many states will call it a civil issue since you released the item prior to completed payment, even though its fraudulant. Criminal charges can be filed, but then you have to prove the value of the item and deal with victim assistance. Not fun and usually you get hosed.
Some things to look at. Is it drawn on a local bank to the buyer? Is it completely typed out with a signature stamp? If there is ink from a pen on the check, is it black? I would say 80% of the fraud cases I have worked, the ink on the check was blue.
Its become easy to duplicate bank items with the latest in color laser printers. Use common sense, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Thats why you wait for clearance on checks.
Another thing to do, document the license plate and a description of the vehicle picking up the item. If for any reason you have issues later, that plate number is golden. It proves the vehicle was at your location and the registered owner info can be pulled from the BMV file. We can now pull the photo of the registered owner on our data terminals. Not all states, but ours does.
Once your item leaves your view, its not easy to retrieve. Many states will call it a civil issue since you released the item prior to completed payment, even though its fraudulant. Criminal charges can be filed, but then you have to prove the value of the item and deal with victim assistance. Not fun and usually you get hosed.
Joe in Neb
Member
I would take it myself. I sell lots of things and take personel checks cashiers checks, wire transfers,and cash. I know its a risk but you have to trust people sometime. I have never been burned yet. I've sold lots of things over the years. Never even got a bad check. Only thing I ever got burned on was something I bought on Ebay! I know personally that if someone was to doubt my integrity on a transaction I would just tell them we'll just let it pass and no hard feelings on my part. My experience is the person who is so concerned is the one to watch for.
Tell him that when YOUR banker is satisfied the check has cleared you will release the tractor.
You DO have an officer at your bank that you work with, right? Simply tell the buyer that when your guy at the bank is satisfied he can have the tractor, taking the matter out of your hands and turning it over to a professional. I've done that quite a few times, the bank folks are "cool" with it and a legit buyer should have no problem satisfying your bank.
You DO have an officer at your bank that you work with, right? Simply tell the buyer that when your guy at the bank is satisfied he can have the tractor, taking the matter out of your hands and turning it over to a professional. I've done that quite a few times, the bank folks are "cool" with it and a legit buyer should have no problem satisfying your bank.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
You're probably OK, and you could probably live to be 100, and your car probably will go another 80k miles. Safest thing going is a Postal Money Order, he'll probably have to get several ($1k limit), but bullet proof.
Good Luck,
Dave
Like was said,if the check was drawn on his local bank, and he is a local guy I would not have a problem. Ask for Id drivers license when he shows up, record the name license #, plate # and address. You must have his name by now, do a reverse look up and if everything matches go for it.
Cashiers check is better then a personal check. I built my home with cashiers checks for sub contractors. Carrying around $5k in cash is a pain in the a$$, not to mention the possibiltiy of getting mugged or losing it. (I dont blame him for paying with a CC)
I would accept CC no problem, just call the bank to confirm the CC is good and not a scam, but if he is a business owner then he is likely not a crook. Due to his business reputation being wrecked.
I would accept CC no problem, just call the bank to confirm the CC is good and not a scam, but if he is a business owner then he is likely not a crook. Due to his business reputation being wrecked.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Cashiers checks have been known to be bogus. Not ALWAYS, not even regularly, but often enought to be skeptical about them. My bank tells me that lately they've seen a higher incidence of bogus (counterfiet) Postal Money Orders. They're often treated as out of state checks, money held for 10+ days until they clear.
On cashiers checks...My bank will "certify" them (as good) for a fee. It's worth a fee, IMHO, for the knowledge the check is legit.
On cashiers checks...My bank will "certify" them (as good) for a fee. It's worth a fee, IMHO, for the knowledge the check is legit.
MarkB_MI
Well-known Member
- Location
- Motown USA
Does it feel right to you? Most scammers won't dare meet you face-to-face. If you know who this guy is and where he lives, I wouldn't be too terribly concerned.
Keith Molden
Well-known Member
If I understood your post correctly, He and his son came to your house & looked @ the forklift. Scammers usually email. He wanted you to haul it for him. Scammers usually want to arrange for their shipper to haul it so you never know where it's final destination is. He was within 100 miles of your house a short time later & wanted to meet you with the check. Scammers don't want you to know who they are. Sounds like he's legit & wanted to save a little time waiting for the mail. Just my thoughts, Keith
larryanderson
Well-known Member
I can usually tell by talking to people if I feel comfortable taking a check from them.I have also wired money and in one of those I had it taken to a JD dealer and they checked it over and it stayed there for pickup.The scammers in most cases stick out and they usually like to e-mail and not meet face to face .In your case I think the bank that issued the check will verify it.Most people are honest but it is that few that make it hard.There was a chemical company in Iowa that got took for over 200K by a crook that had a pickup that had logo ,uniform, and a fraudulent number to call and verify his check after they they called in an order.
Kentb of SWMO
Well-known Member
I have some relative that own a Home improvement business. The did a job for a gal. It took forever to get her to pay. When she did pay, she paided with a CC. When they deposited the CC they got it back as NO GOOD. It turned out after she had mailed the check she went back to the bank and told them she had LOST the check. I guess she considered dropping the check in a Mail box as being LOST. The bank refunded her the money and CANCELLED the CC. After I heard this I NOW only take a U.S. Postal Money Order. Once a Postal Money Order purchased, they WILL NOT refund the money for Thirty days.
Kent
Kent
I would think real hard on the CC check, because some banks will let you call and check to see if that CC check is good and some banks will not.
why be a victom of scam. It is better to be safe than sorry. It is a b---h to retrive your item that you sold. You could hold the item till the check clears.Food for thought.
JR.FRYE HAVE A GOOD ONE
Relax, Do not worry. You are not getting scammed here.
The scammers only operate from long distance and do not really want the goods they only want the money. An old forklift is the last thing they want to deal with.
To give basic pease of mind. Do some basic checks. Goto anywho.com and verify he lives at the address he gives. Or just google his telephone number. Go to the states Auditors Web site and verify his business name is registared with the state.
Have a purchase agreement. For this amount I am selling you this equiptment under these conditions (as-is no warrenties given) Thus, if you have get a bum check you can go to court if need be. I never sell equipment or buy with out the above.
Make a copy of the check before cashing...
Be prudent and have a paper trail and do a little due diligence. But remember you are not dealing with an overseas interest asking you to refund money.
Also remember 99.999999999% of people are good and honest. The TV has us thinking it is the other way around.
Jeff
The scammers only operate from long distance and do not really want the goods they only want the money. An old forklift is the last thing they want to deal with.
To give basic pease of mind. Do some basic checks. Goto anywho.com and verify he lives at the address he gives. Or just google his telephone number. Go to the states Auditors Web site and verify his business name is registared with the state.
Have a purchase agreement. For this amount I am selling you this equiptment under these conditions (as-is no warrenties given) Thus, if you have get a bum check you can go to court if need be. I never sell equipment or buy with out the above.
Make a copy of the check before cashing...
Be prudent and have a paper trail and do a little due diligence. But remember you are not dealing with an overseas interest asking you to refund money.
Also remember 99.999999999% of people are good and honest. The TV has us thinking it is the other way around.
Jeff
I'm with you, people worry too much. I've bought and sold stuff all over, usually with a personal check, money order, or cash. I may lose my shirt tomorrow on a transaction but if I do, so be it.
For me, the only time I've really been had was on a credit card fraud from a truckstop. Back in the days of carbon paper. Chase took care of it but it was a little hassel for a few months.
For me, the only time I've really been had was on a credit card fraud from a truckstop. Back in the days of carbon paper. Chase took care of it but it was a little hassel for a few months.
There are a number of options here. You could set your email account up with paypal and your bank so someone can send it by paypal to your email. Most people on ebay are set up with paypay. Just need to add the email account. I transfer money to my daughter that way.
With cc checks, the people usually come on a weekend when banks are closed. I have been able to call his bank and give them the check number just to make sure it isn't counterfeit but that doesn't fix buyer's remorse.
I don't like postal money orders and other money orders as the buyer/payer because if they get lost in the mail, it is a real pain to file a claim.
For a large ticket item that he wants to pick up, then it cash and carry. He can take the cc to his bank and exchange it for cash before he hits the road. Then your only worry is if it is counterfeit. It's easier to counterfeit checks that greenbacks though.
Just have him cash his check and bring you a stack of Ben Franklins. Then have a bill of sale ready and along with the usual sold as is, where is, no warranties express or implied as to fitness for a purpose or merchantability. If it has some major defects such as doesn't run, burns oil, wrecked, and so on, note that on the bill of sale. Mark it cash received and both of you sign it. Have two copies so each one gets an original. He will need the bill of sale for tax purposes if nothing else. And to help protect yourself, take a series of pictures from all angles. Give him a printout (or thumbnail printout) of them as well. So when it gets wrecked or vandalized on the way to its new home, the pics will help defer blame away from you. If it is a smoker with lots of blowby, a pic showing the smoke would be to your advantage as well. Taking a pic of all the defects and then pointing them out to him along with handing over a copy of the pics will help defer any future claim away from you.
With cc checks, the people usually come on a weekend when banks are closed. I have been able to call his bank and give them the check number just to make sure it isn't counterfeit but that doesn't fix buyer's remorse.
I don't like postal money orders and other money orders as the buyer/payer because if they get lost in the mail, it is a real pain to file a claim.
For a large ticket item that he wants to pick up, then it cash and carry. He can take the cc to his bank and exchange it for cash before he hits the road. Then your only worry is if it is counterfeit. It's easier to counterfeit checks that greenbacks though.
Just have him cash his check and bring you a stack of Ben Franklins. Then have a bill of sale ready and along with the usual sold as is, where is, no warranties express or implied as to fitness for a purpose or merchantability. If it has some major defects such as doesn't run, burns oil, wrecked, and so on, note that on the bill of sale. Mark it cash received and both of you sign it. Have two copies so each one gets an original. He will need the bill of sale for tax purposes if nothing else. And to help protect yourself, take a series of pictures from all angles. Give him a printout (or thumbnail printout) of them as well. So when it gets wrecked or vandalized on the way to its new home, the pics will help defer blame away from you. If it is a smoker with lots of blowby, a pic showing the smoke would be to your advantage as well. Taking a pic of all the defects and then pointing them out to him along with handing over a copy of the pics will help defer any future claim away from you.
Wow. No trust left in the world. If we all talked from experience then most of us seemed to have been cheated.
This guy has already invested time and met you to make the initial deal so I doubt he's looking to scam. Ever consider that he could be worried your going to cheat him?
It's a gamble either way. Have faith.
This guy has already invested time and met you to make the initial deal so I doubt he's looking to scam. Ever consider that he could be worried your going to cheat him?
It's a gamble either way. Have faith.
One thing to consider.
When I have a person insist on cash I also arm myself. No way I'm going to show up at a stangers house with thousands in cash to meet someone that knows I'm carrying it without taking a few precautions. That's one of the oldest cons in the book.
When I have a person insist on cash I also arm myself. No way I'm going to show up at a stangers house with thousands in cash to meet someone that knows I'm carrying it without taking a few precautions. That's one of the oldest cons in the book.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Checks, money orders and, yes, even cash can all be bogus. The only 100% safe transaction would be to barter. You could take 1000 chickens in trade. Or perhaps an ox, 200 chickens, and twelve cases of Doritos. How about a unicycle, 100 bales of hay, a chandelier, and a diamond ring?
Well, that's getting a little complicated. Maybe you should just ignore your paranoid buddy and trust that the buyer is legit, which he probably is.
Well, that's getting a little complicated. Maybe you should just ignore your paranoid buddy and trust that the buyer is legit, which he probably is.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
How much less did your 'buddy' offer for the forklift??
If he seems like a legit businessman I don't think I would worry about the cheque. I suppose you could have him get it certified but I think 99.5% of the time you'd be fine anyway.
I've gotten one bad cheque... but it was one I expected to be bad the day I took it... while collecting on a debt which the guy couldn't pay in cash. So I rolled the dice and hoped the cheque might be good.
I've never had anyone pull crap in the situation you're dealing with. Have a little faith.
Rod
If he seems like a legit businessman I don't think I would worry about the cheque. I suppose you could have him get it certified but I think 99.5% of the time you'd be fine anyway.
I've gotten one bad cheque... but it was one I expected to be bad the day I took it... while collecting on a debt which the guy couldn't pay in cash. So I rolled the dice and hoped the cheque might be good.
I've never had anyone pull crap in the situation you're dealing with. Have a little faith.
Rod
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
> That works till the chickens die from some odd disease and the ring ends up being a zircon.
bc... you are right. I guess that goes to show that there is no 100% safe option. Money orders can be fake, checks can bounce, cash can be counterfeit, computer accounts can be hacked, bartered goods can be forgeries, etc, etc, etc. All these things COULD happen, and yet in most cases they don't. At some point you have to trust people. Not everyone mind you, but you gotta trust SOMEBODY at some point in time.
In a situation like this, we just have to use our smarts and ask... does this deal sound legit? If these guys were scamming, would they meet you in person? Would they be using their nefarious scheme to get an old forklift instead something more valuable like a sportscar? Or are they just like the tens of thousands of honest people who just want to buy something and use the relatively safe method of a money order?
Ask yourself this... how would an honest buyer be approaching this deal? Do these folks fit that description? If you were the buyer, how would you pay?
bc... you are right. I guess that goes to show that there is no 100% safe option. Money orders can be fake, checks can bounce, cash can be counterfeit, computer accounts can be hacked, bartered goods can be forgeries, etc, etc, etc. All these things COULD happen, and yet in most cases they don't. At some point you have to trust people. Not everyone mind you, but you gotta trust SOMEBODY at some point in time.
In a situation like this, we just have to use our smarts and ask... does this deal sound legit? If these guys were scamming, would they meet you in person? Would they be using their nefarious scheme to get an old forklift instead something more valuable like a sportscar? Or are they just like the tens of thousands of honest people who just want to buy something and use the relatively safe method of a money order?
Ask yourself this... how would an honest buyer be approaching this deal? Do these folks fit that description? If you were the buyer, how would you pay?
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