D Fanshaft Issues Questions

[Joel Sanderson]

I'm having some troubles:

1) The fan on my '47 D came off while I was cutting wood and blew into the radiator. Ugh. I've taken it apart down to the fan shaft, and I see the fan shaft bearing is really loose--
possibly the cause of the problem. The service manual says the bearing can be removed after the dust cover is off, but how? There's a snap ring holding it in, but it doesn't have any
ears to pinch it together with snap ring liars. How do you get it out? Then, how do I get the bearing off the shaft without pulling the shaft out? The service manual doesn't say that's
necessary, and I'm hoping it's right.

2) I also seem to be missing one friction disc and washer. I don't know if it came off and went hop-skipping through the woods when the fan came off or not. Whatever, it's not there.
Anyone know where to get one? If not, I could make one if I had the dimensions. Is the front set exactly like the rear set?

3) The fan shaft's threads are stripped. It appears to have been 9/16 NF. Any reason why I can't take it down to 1/2-20 NF and just change nuts?

4) How does the overflow pipe fit into the top of the radiator? Whoever had this just glued a pipe into it. (Wow. I hope nothing else on this tractor is just glued together!) What keeps
it in? I see no picture of it in the service or parts manuals. It shows the connector, but nothing up inside.

Thanks for any help you have for me. This is my first time into this.

Joel

 

[SVcummins]

Those type of snap rings if they are external they make a special pair of pliers for . If the snap ring is internal sitting inside a groove then you have to use a couple seal picks or small flat blade screwdriver to pry it out of the groove I can?t tell from the picture what you have

 

[Joel Sanderson]

Thanks. If I can't get it that way I'll try die grinding it out.

 

[Mark-Ia]

www.greenpartsofva.com have the friction disks in a kit. Tractor Trauma Center have the pot metal driving disk. address: 24880 145th Ave, Eldridge, IA 52748
Phone: (563) 528-3862

 

[Mike(NEOhio)]

That type of ring usually has a cutaway on one side of the gap to pry it out. I think I can see it at the left side of the shadow below the shaft.

 

[Joel Sanderson]

Thank you very much, Mark. I sure appreciate it.

 

[Joel Sanderson]

I'll look closely for that. Thank you.

 

[Mark-Ia]

You might try New Paris Tractor Parts
Address: 19828 US-6, New Paris, IN 46553
Hours: Open ⋅ Closes 5PM Phone: (574) 831-6820









Phone: (574) 831-6820

 

[WeirdDeere]

Been there, done that, got the expensive T shirt. My memory is going slight fuzzy I hope I remember the details right.

Just did this mid last year when my '38 DI shot the fan into what was a nice new core.

I went the more in depth route but you probably don't HAVE to.

I do think you could rethread the shaft smaller, I considered it but was concerned about the remaining strength left on the now smaller shaft and threads. I ended up welding up and machining for the next size LARGER. Yes a bit overkill.

The rough part would be getting the inner race off the shaft. IF I'm not losing my mind the inner race has to come out before the outer race can come out. It is on there as a light press fit...meaning you don't need a press but if you can get some good hammer blows it will come off. But with everything assembled you have no way to do that. I pulled the upper water pipe and fanshaft as a unit.

You likely can unbolt the fanshaft from the rear and slide the fanshaft forward enough. I tried it and couldn't get the bearing to move but I didn't try VERY hard as I thought it would need a lot more force so ended up pulling everything.

It is a 3 piece bearing. once you get the inner race off You have to remove that snap ring, I had to use a couple screwdrivers and lots of time and swear words. Doing that you can get the outer race out and the balls/retainer. In a new bearing the balls and retainer will be one piece. In a worn out bearing it will come out as the retainer and balls all separate like mine. It might even look good but it is definitely SHOT if you compare to new.


As the others said, I'd recommend GreenPartsofVA for parts. He's got the bearings and the friction disks. I was cheap and used Sharps for the bearings. It was a decent bearing, but made in China if that matters to you or not, plastic retainer but that shouldn't matter. I was also cheap and ended up MAKING my own friction disk, from an old cutoff wheel. Sharps sold me friction disks but they were NO GOOD. Yes the friction disc and washer (cup?) are the same front to back.

Any questions feel free to ask. I'm sorry if I said something wrong my memory is just SHOT anymore

Brandon

 

[Joel Sanderson]

Oh, that was so, so, SO helpful, Brandon! Thank you! Funny thing I noticed that your friction disc was laying in almost exactly the same spot mine was after it blew apart. And a new core, you say? Me too. What looked like a new core was one of my reasons for buying this tractor. That and the new tires. Let's hope I don't run over something now.

I'll use two screw drivers and lots of swear words for that snap ring then. Sounds like good advice. If the screw drivers don't work and I run out of vocabulary I'll probably try to forge some little sharp pinch bars to get it. Should be possible. I'm hoping I can get the inner race to come with a double hook-thingy like a mini wheel puller. I do not want to dig as deep as you did, but I will if I have to.

I'm replacing the generator belt while I'm there. It seems crazy, but as far as I can tell, you have to take all this front off to change that thing. It sure won't go over the fan. Maybe that's why people kept buying these Ds without electric. Ha ha!

It had some oil on top of the antifreeze when I drained it, and I suppose it's the head gasket. Do you think I should be concerned? I probably should change that while I'm here too. Ugh. I don't wanna. I've gotta get this beastie out of my shop to cut wood so I can heat my shop. Hmmm. Shoulda cut ahead. Whoops.

Thanks again, Brandon. I won't be able to work on this for the next two days, but I'll be at it again on Thursday.

 

[WeirdDeere]

I also pulled the fanshaft to be able to change the bearings on the other end of it. There is advice out there that if your front one is bad the rear one is likely bad too. Which makes sense. My rear bearing seemed decent when I got it apart (that one did take a press) and likely would have been OK a few more decades. You could think that the rear bearing gets a constant source of oil mist while the front bearing only gets greased when someone remembers it every few decades. I also wanted to change the felt seals on the fanshaft. My front one (which is behind that dust cover) was leaking and allowing grease to fling really bad. I suggest changing the front felt at least while you're in there. Look and see if your fan belt pulley is grooved, that won't help hold the grease. Mine has a spacer instead of the pulley and it was worn and grooved really really bad. I made a new one.

The belt surprises me. The book shows a solid belt, I suspect that it may have originally been a split belt that could be easily removed. Maybe you could replace it with a modern link belt such as this https://www.harborfreight.com/vibration-free-link-belt-43771.html I plan to do that when I do a future light project on my DI

Your antifreeze? It could be a gasket. It could be a crack. honestly I don't know. The Ds don't have the pushrod tubes like the As and Bs. Hope you find it. You could always go the route of a sealer, but it's your choice, your money.

Brandon

 

[John Deere D]

I own several JD Styled "Ds"..

Bob...

 

[Joel Sanderson]

I'll take a peak. When you say "lead" do mean lead, as in to "lead a goat down a path" or do you mean lead like we pour to make balls for our long rifles? Not meaning to joke here. I'm serious. Do I look for washers made of lead?

Thank you, Bob. I always appreciate your help.

Joel

 

[WeirdDeere]

Lead as in the squishy soft metal. They were used under the head nuts to lube and seal during installation

Brandon

 

[Joel Sanderson]

Oh wow! Thanks! I had no idea. We blacksmiths kinda avoid lead except in our muzzle-loaders. When I drained my water there was a film of brown oil goop on top. Could this possibly have come from the bolts if they didn't have the lead washers? Or maybe the head gasket? Should I be concerned? I intend to go all through this tractor eventually, but I'm so behind in my work I really don't want to go any deeper than necessary right now.

A body needs a shop for every purpose so none ties up another. Ha!

 

[WeirdDeere]

I don't think oil in antifreeze hurts anything. Antifreeze in oil can mess up bearings.

I'm thinking, from my point of view, if you're seeing a little oil in your coolant, just run it. Maybe flush it and see if it comes back, maybe it's been in there for years. Run it in the mean time and keep an eye on things, fix it when you have time. Just make sure you check your oil for antifreeze in the meantime.

Just my opinion

Brandon

 

[Joel Sanderson]

That's good to hear, Brandon. Thanks. I'll be changing the oil and filter Thursday, so I'll know more then. I might go ahead and change the transmission oil too, to get any dead birds and cats out of it.

Say, have you ever taken a filter, drained it, then opened it up and laid the paper out flat to see what's in it? A retired 2 cylinder mechanic, retired from a John Deere dealership, told me that if you do that you can learn a lot about what's going on inside the engine by what metal bits you find in the folds of the filter. Seems like a good idea, though it'd take years' of experience (like he has) to know what you're seeing.

 

[WeirdDeere]

I haven't cut open a filter but it makes sense, lots of car guys do it. Wish I'd done it to mine, I might have found out that it was floating in there and not filtering a damn thing for probably 30 years

Brandon

 

[John Deere D]

Every JD styled "D" I own and others I have worked on all had ENGINE OIL PUMP INLET SCREENS that were non existent, plugged, or some RED NECKED alterations..

Have you checked your TRACTORS screen.. ?

I had to replace the inlet screen material....I used a STAINLESS MESH ...

Bob...

 

[Joel Sanderson]

Is it accessible from the outside of the tractor?

 

[WeirdDeere]

I probably seem obsessive since I'm replying to everything.

But yes, yes it is, you can remove it, it's below the crankshaft, behind the flywheel, just two nuts and it's off.

It's just barely showing in this picture you can see one of the nuts that hold it in place, but it's in line with the filter

It's standing upright in the photo

 

[Joel Sanderson]

Hey, you can be as obsessive as you wanna be as long as your'e answering questions! Ha! Thanks for the pictures. That helps.

Here's a different question: The fan shaft on my D has a keyway instead of splines, and the only drive discs I can find for sale are for splined shafts. Do you know of a source for one with the keyed type? I could make one, but it'd take some time I'd rather not spend. Here's a picture of one I found that's splined. The bore is larger than my shaft or I'd consider using it anyway.

I hope you obsess and answer me! Ha ha!

 

[WeirdDeere]

I'd probably shop for used, New Paris one guy mentioned below does seem pretty reasonable on prices, pretty quick to reply and ship out. I've only used him once or twice but it was nice.

You can shop around of course. They were used on practically all the JDs out there so don't pay too much

Brandon

 

[John Deere D]

Check out as per below and see pictures....( I have no connection in any way or forum)

VINTAGETRACTORS.COM
AND
RUSTY ACRES RANCH


I'm away from my summer residence for at least another three months.

I have a styled JD "D" that a pervious owner machined the FAN drive...installed a tapered hub...then attached a FORD Thermodynamic FAN....fantastic idea....
Bob

 

[Joel Sanderson]

I found them, Brandon. Vintage Tractors in California that John Deere D told me about has them for $30 each; New Paris has them for $45 each. Since New Paris is an hour and a half from me, so even though they're more expensive, I'm going to drive down and get them tomorrow morning along with another part I need for the hydraulic system I'm planning to put together on this D--and anything else I think I need after working on the tractor today. Hopefully this'll let me get this together for the weekend, and my wife and I can cut wood Saturday before my pile is complete gone. Brrrr!!

My dad picked up a 730 flywheel hub from New Paris last summer, and they were nice to work with.

 

[Joel Sanderson]

Thank you very much for telling me about the place in California. They have these parts, but I also found them in New Paris Tractor Parts in Indiana, which is only an hour and half from me; so I'm going to drive down there in the morning and pick them up so I can get this tractor back together. I'll have it apart again and no doubt will have a lot more questions for you. I might have more before it's together even! Thanks for helping. I sincerely appreciate it.

joel

 

[Joel Sanderson]

Brandon, when you pulled your fan shaft out of the governor housing, did you remove the whole governor? The manual says you have to, but I don't see why. It seems like I could take the three bolts out and pull it like you did and not have to get into the governor at all--or take off the fuel tank, magneto and everything else it says. (It also says you can change the front bearing without having to pull anything. Right.) Is there an oil line in there or something else I don't know about?

I don't think I'm going to be able to get the fan shaft bearing's inner race off the shaft with it in position, but if I could pul the whole shaft out about three inches I could cut the race off very carefully with a cut-off wheel; then slip the shaft back into position and put the new bearing in. What do you think?

 

[WeirdDeere]

I avoided New Paris for years they always seemed insanely pricey but either I was wrong or they've gotten more reasonable in the meantime, I'm glad you are finding what you need. Keep that D alive!

Inspiration

 

[WeirdDeere]

I posted a reply with a picture above that shows how I got the fanshaft out. I didn't see your question I just happened to post it LOL

You can undo the three bolts and it'll come right out. You can probalby do that, slide it forward without getting the tank and stuff out of the way to get your bearing race off, you'll get a couple inches anyway. There's no oil lines or anything, just be careful, it is actually shims behind it, not just a normal gasket.

Here is one pic I have after I slid the shaft forward. I even got a bearing splitter on it but couldn't get it to move with some hitting. The hard part is keeping the shaft held forward tightly so you can get your force on the bearing itself. I wonder if you could get a big vice grip on the fanshaft, keeping it pinned forward, while you hit on the bearing. I think if I'd done that it would have come right off. I just thought it would take more force then it did. Be sure to sand/deburr the shaft ahead of the bearing so it can slide off without catching

Brandon

 

[Joel Sanderson]

Now that looks encouraging. I really do need to dig deeper into mine, but my wood pile is getting smaller and smaller and smaller...

Here's how my threads came out. I did it right on the tractor. Worked fine. I used a Little Giant die set with split dies that you can open up or make tighter, as you wish. Since it was a 9/16-20, I started with 1/2-20 opened up to go on it easily. Then I made a pass, screwed the dies tighter, then made another pass and so on until I had it down to 1/2-20. They came out quite good.

That ding-dang farzel bling blasted shniggle wrackchet snap ring would not come out no matter what I tried!!! I spent a good hour trying to dig in there and pry it out, cussing, prying, cussing some more, but No Doin! So by that time I was ticked enough to say, this is my tractor, I can do what I want to it. I drill a little hole through the housing and pushed it out with a punch. Worked great (other than the bling-blasted thing hit me hard in the thumb when it let fly!) I'll tap the hole and plug it with a set screw so that next time it won't be such a problem.

 

[Joel Sanderson]

Here's the hole I drilled for the pin punch. I couldn't load all four pictures at once I guess.

 

[Joel Sanderson]

Thanks, Brandon. I'll pull that shaft tomorrow after I get back from New Paris. I plan to slide it forward and then cut the whole bearing off with a cut-off wheel in an angle grinder. I won't need to bang on anything that way. If the new bearing doesn't slide on easily, I'll make a thread pusher and get it on that way. You ever done that? It's just a pipe over the shaft to push the bearing on or in (depending on the bearing) and a threaded rod inside to do the actual pulling. I've done some good sized bearings that way. In this case, I'd mount the threaded rod to the end of the shaft, connected at the 1/2-20 thread at the end. I think it'd work fine, but I might not have to do it. We'll see. I'll take pictures if I do.

 

[WeirdDeere]

Looks like a good solution to me! You're not the only one to make an access hole for a punch. I haven't had to do it yet but I NEED to remember it

For my bearing installation, I heated them and that dropped right on, but I'd have your screw pusher ready just in case