Electrical question

[Rich'sToys]

Is it possible for a battery to be so dead that a tractor won't run on it? My MM ZA had been parked all winter of course. Last week I put the charger on it overnight. The next morning the green light was on, indicating it was fully charged. A couple days later I tried starting it--nothing! Completely dead. We pulled it and got it running. Left it stand idling while I did some other things. Came back a little while later and it had stopped. Since my pulling helper was no longer available I jumped it with a 12 volt battery. It would run a few seconds and then stop. Did this several times.
Thinking I maybe had a fuel issue also, I pushed it into the shop to deal with it later.
Meanwhile I picked up a brand new 6 volt battery yesterday. Put that in this morning and it fired right up and sat there and idled perfectly!
Is it possible that the old battery was simply so far gone that there was not enough juice to make it run? I'm not 100% sure if the generator is working or not-the ammeter quivered a little but not much else. I've printed out John T.'s troubleshooting guide and plan to run through the steps, but in the meantime I thought I'd check with the brain trust here to see if anyone has any other thoughts.
Sorry this got to be so long!

 

[timcasbolt]

(quoted from post at 12:30:40 04/09/21) Is it possible for a battery to be so dead that a tractor won't run on it? My MM ZA had been parked all winter of course. Last week I put the charger on it overnight. The next morning the green light was on, indicating it was fully charged. A couple days later I tried starting it--nothing! Completely dead. We pulled it and got it running. Left it stand idling while I did some other things. Came back a little while later and it had stopped. Since my pulling helper was no longer available I jumped it with a 12 volt battery. It would run a few seconds and then stop. Did this several times.
Thinking I maybe had a fuel issue also, I pushed it into the shop to deal with it later.
Meanwhile I picked up a brand new 6 volt battery yesterday. Put that in this morning and it fired right up and sat there and idled perfectly!
Is it possible that the old battery was simply so far gone that there was not enough juice to make it run? I'm not 100% sure if the generator is working or not-the ammeter quivered a little but not much else. I've printed out John T.'s troubleshooting guide and plan to run through the steps, but in the meantime I thought I'd check with the brain trust here to see if anyone has any other thoughts.
Sorry this got to be so long!

ure sounds like a bad generator to me.

 

[SDE]

Start by polarizing the electrical system. After doing that, it should be charging.

 

[John T]

YES Its possible for a battery to be so shot and so dead discharged it cant keep a tractor running ESPECIALLY IF THE CHARGING
SYSTEM IST PRODUCING. When I was a used tractor dealer I bought many at auctions that way grrrrrrrrrrr

If you work through my Charging Troubleshooting procedure it can help finds the cause, be it the genny or the regulator etc.
Be sure to look at the Motor Test and the VR by pass sections (such as dead ground the gennys FLD post) and of course proper
Polarizing...

https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=ttalk&th=2060825

John T
John Ts Charging Troubleshooting

 

[SVcummins]

Yes

 

[lugnuts2030]

Its easy to test if system is charging. Test voltage at battery or starter not running and test voltage while running, voltage should go up if charging.

 

[JayinNY]

Boo! Im back on,

 

[RJKeith]

Yes, if you have a dead cell. When you start it, measure the voltage across the battery, it should be about 14 volts. If it is 8 or something less, then you will not have
enough voltage to operate your ignition.

PS: You might try disconnecting the ground terminal on the battery, that should let the generator or alternator maintain enough voltage for the ignition once it starts.

 

[T.R.K.]

I had a lawnmower in the shop a few days ago that the dead battery was taking so much current I could not even jump start it with a car
battery.

 

[Stephen Newell]

How old is the tractor? If it doesn't have electronic ignition you should be able to take a battery out of tractor once you get it running. If you can't then there is an issue with your charging system. With an electronic ignition sometimes there is enough voltage
drop it won't run.

 

[Steve@Advance]

If you brought it down to idle, and there was no battery voltage to carry the ignition, then yes, it will die.

 

[Rich'sToys]

(quoted from post at 12:09:48 04/09/21) YES Its possible for a battery to be so shot and so dead discharged it cant keep a tractor running ESPECIALLY IF THE CHARGING
SYSTEM IST PRODUCING. When I was a used tractor dealer I bought many at auctions that way grrrrrrrrrrr

If you work through my Charging Troubleshooting procedure it can help finds the cause, be it the genny or the regulator etc.
Be sure to look at the Motor Test and the VR by pass sections (such as dead ground the gennys FLD post) and of course proper
Polarizing...

https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=ttalk&th=2060825

John T
John Ts Charging Troubleshooting

Thanks, John!
I monkeyed with it a little bit this afternoon. I suspect I'm looking at a new regulator. I grounded the field terminal and the gauge did show some charging then when I started it. Also cleaned up some ground connections. I'll get a different regulator at some point and try that.
Thanks for all the replies.

 

[gene bender]

when you grounded the field and that made it charge that is the test that shows
the reg is bad and the gen is good check to make sure the reg does have a good
ground to the chassis

 

[John T]

Hey Rich, You're welcome thanks for the feedback, you now state I grounded the field terminal and the gauge did show some
charging then when I started it

As my Troubleshooting Procedure indicates, if it ONLY charges when you ground the Gennys FLD post (says genny itself is okay)
but NOT otherwise, The VR is bad or its incorrect ,,,,,, Or the VR isnt well Grounded (check those connections and wiring)
,,,,,,, Or there's a bad/loose/resistive wire from the VR to the Genny.

John T

 

[Uncle murph]

Yes.we used to use a Case SC to rake hay with,the generator never worked so we always kept it parked on a
hill to start it but you still had to charge the battery several times a summer because it would eventually get so
dead that the tractor wouldnt run at all.