Farmall 300 clutch trouble

[rustred]

rr, scroll up to my reply #10. Click the underlined part number it’s a link to the CaseIH fork collar.(remember the head gasket post this is one of those photos you’re so fond of) It shows the step the bearing is resting against. This is a TA tractor with a live PTO. Those splines you see are live PTO drive splines that are driven by that hub in the pressure plate. You can’t see the splines the clutch plate engages onto. Look at the photo in reply 5, the two sets of splines are shown there. You may very well have a point about the release fingers being at an angle more so than being parallel with the plane of the throughout bearing face. Me I would have to see how much the release fingers were drawn down as the bolts were tighten to assess whether or not the pressure plate and clutch combination might have a suspect problem.

I know exactly what what this is. I don’t know why u always try to make it look like I am talking out of my azz.

 

[rustred]

Was out in the shop and it came to me that my 300u uses the same clutch so I dropped the inspection cover and snapped a shot of what mine looks like. Please forgive the cobwebs it's been sitting for a bit. But as you can see I have almost 2" of spline showing where you don't even have half an in. I'd say that the clutch disc is in backwards and the throw out bearing is hitting the collar of the disc and can't go anywhere and that's your bind

That is exactly what I am talking about. !

 

[used red MN]

Was out in the shop and it came to me that my 300u uses the same clutch so I dropped the inspection cover and snapped a shot of what mine looks like. Please forgive the cobwebs it's been sitting for a bit. But as you can see I have almost 2" of spline showing where you don't even have half an in. I'd say that the clutch disc is in backwards and the throw out bearing is hitting the collar of the disc and can't go anywhere and that's your bind

Does you 300U have a live PTO? If not your comparing apples and oranges. Most did but your clutch in that picture look suspiciously different. I am not sure how the Rockford clutch and the other option (name?) compared. In your Farmall as I explained to rustred the splines you see are the live PTO drive splines. Where they set front to back is not affected by which direction the lined clutch plate has been installed unless you bent the he11 out of something tightening it down. When the tractor is back together you cannot see the machine clutch input splines or the lined plate hub in the center cushion. I am not disagreeing that it probably has to come back apart but I am not sure a smoking gun can be seen at this point.

 

[rustred]

I know exactly what what this is. I don’t know why u always try to make it look like I am talking out of my azz.

here is your shafts, which i use for a pilot a shaft. and the mock up i was was looking at today in the shop, from my 660. to come to a conclusion on his problem . i think things out first myself. according to dewy he has things in correct from what he has said. he said springs to the plate and fork bolts back. and what 14fx is saying is waht i am talking about,.. except that is the pres. plate the collar is hitting not the clutch disc. actually i looked now at his enlarged pic and yes his is the clutch disk. but same idea.

 

[used red MN]

I am not trying to say that you don’t know what you are talking about. I know you have a lot of W model tractors that don’t have TAs so I thought maybe you were thinking otherwise, sorry I don’t mean to get your dander up. I am waiting to see if he says the 300U has live power. I know one thing, if there is actually that much difference and it is caused by the clutch plate being backwards he has distorted the heck out of that pressure plate. I am surprised the cap screws for it were even long enough to start them in their threads to clamp it down that far.

 

[dewy]

I agree with all of your ideas red you are definitely right about the finger getting caught on the outside of that throw out bearing the first time I bolted that pressure plate together with flywheel didn't notice it till I got done and then saw one of the fingers was on the outside of the throwout bearing had to separate tractor a couple inches to get it off of there and then put it back together and I thought everything was okay I think I've been something on that pressure plate I got home today and took the pressure plate loose of course I can't see the disc will split tractor hopefully tomorrow but I had movement in the clutch now I can actually you know push the clutch down and and move that pressure plate you know feels kind of okay not like a brick wall like it was I think I've damaged the pressure plate I would like what Russ red said about getting an alignment tool like I do on the super seas and 200s you know I use an old shaft and do it you know out of the tractor before I put the tractor together I want to do that this time I still don't understand why all the discs say one and 1/8 hub but they have a one in 3/32 alignment tool but no hub no disc and when I measured my old disc it is 1: 3/32nd. The disc I put in was one and 1/8 all the discs that Yesterday's Tractor sell are one and 1/8

 

[dewy]

Sorry I didn't proofread and I used a voice text

 

[Janicholson]

If the flywheel was turned and the PP mount surface to friction surface is wrong, the disc might not have enough thickness to pull the levers in near flat (as would be expected. Dewy does the lever on the outside move the TO beraing easily with it apart as in the photo? I also agree the Bolts in the cross shaft are correct. Jim

 

[Janicholson]

Sorry I didn't proofread and I used a voice text

When you tightened the PP onto the new driven disc, how far did the bolts turn in before the fingers started to move toward the center? there should have been somewhere in the area of 3/16 of gap when all 6 bolts are just beginning to get tension on them and pull the fingers inward. Jim

 

[13fx]

Does you 300U have a live PTO? If not your comparing apples and oranges. Most did but your clutch in that picture look suspiciously different. I am not sure how the Rockford clutch and the other option (name?) compared. In your Farmall as I explained to rustred the splines you see are the live PTO drive splines. Where they set front to back is not affected by which direction the lined clutch plate has been installed unless you bent the he11 out of something tightening it down. When the tractor is back together you cannot see the machine clutch input splines or the lined plate hub in the center cushion. I am not disagreeing that it probably has to come back apart but I am not sure a smoking gun can be seen at this point

Does you 300U have a live PTO? If not your comparing apples and oranges. Most did but your clutch in that picture look suspiciously different. I am not sure how the Rockford clutch and the other option (name?) compared. In your Farmall as I explained to rustred the splines you see are the live PTO drive splines. Where they set front to back is not affected by which direction the lined clutch plate has been installed unless you bent the he11 out of something tightening it down. When the tractor is back together you cannot see the machine clutch input splines or the lined plate hub in the center cushion. I am not disagreeing that it probably has to come back apart but I am not sure a smoking gun can be seen at this point.

Yup live PTO on my 300u. Also the photo

Does you 300U have a live PTO? If not your comparing apples and oranges. Most did but your clutch in that picture look suspiciously different. I am not sure how the Rockford clutch and the other option (name?) compared. In your Farmall as I explained to rustred the splines you see are the live PTO drive splines. Where they set front to back is not affected by which direction the lined clutch plate has been installed unless you bent the he11 out of something tightening it down. When the tractor is back together you cannot see the machine clutch input splines or the lined plate hub in the center cushion. I am not disagreeing that it probably has to come back apart but I am not sure a smoking gun can be seen at this point.

Yup live PTO on the 300u.

 

[dewy]

When you tightened the PP onto the new driven disc, how far did the bolts turn in before the fingers started to move toward the center? there should have been somewhere in the area of 3/16 of gap when all 6 bolts are just beginning to get tension on them and pull the fingers inward. Jim

Yes they were about that....i just didnt notice one was cocked on outside throwout bearing.. how I didn't notice that I don't know I noticed it when I got done

 

[dewy]

Yes it does now that I've unbolted the pressure plate

 

[used red MN]

I agree with all of your ideas red you are definitely right about the finger getting caught on the outside of that throw out bearing the first time I bolted that pressure plate together with flywheel didn't notice it till I got done and then saw one of the fingers was on the outside of the throwout bearing had to separate tractor a couple inches to get it off of there and then put it back together and I thought everything was okay I think I've been something on that pressure plate I got home today and took the pressure plate loose of course I can't see the disc will split tractor hopefully tomorrow but I had movement in the clutch now I can actually you know push the clutch down and and move that pressure plate you know feels kind of okay not like a brick wall like it was I think I've damaged the pressure plate I would like what Russ red said about getting an alignment tool like I do on the super seas and 200s you know I use an old shaft and do it you know out of the tractor before I put the tractor together I want to do that this time I still don't understand why all the discs say one and 1/8 hub but they have a one in 3/32 alignment tool but no hub no disc and when I measured my old disc it is 1: 3/32nd. The disc I put in was one and 1/8 all the discs that Yesterday's Tractor sell are one and 1/8

So there you go, this is the sort of thing that really get rustred’s goat, leaving out part of the story. So you bolted the pressure plate up after you rolled it together you mounted the lined disc on the input shaft. Also hung the pressure plate on the live PTO splines when sliding it together? Then during the bolt up and tightening down the pressure plate 2 of the levers were in the correct position on the face of the TO bearing and one was behind or beside the TO bearing. If so it is hard telling what happened. Leaving these kinds of things out makes diagnosis difficult. This can be done successfully, but you have to be careful and know what all can go on.
Does your 300U have a live PTO?

 

[dewy]

I'm going to get an alignment tool this time and not try to bolt that together after tractor was put together but I'm confused on which one to get when all the discs are one and 1/8 and the disc I took out was one and 3/32

 

[rustred]

I am not trying to say that you don’t know what you are talking about. I know you have a lot of W model tractors that don’t have TAs so I thought maybe you were thinking otherwise, sorry I don’t mean to get your dander up. I am waiting to see if he says the 300U has live power. I know one thing, if there is actually that much difference and it is caused by the clutch plate being backwards he has distorted the heck out of that pressure plate. I am surprised the cap screws for it were even long enough to start them in their threads to clamp it down that far.

dewy's tractor has a TA and 13fx tractor does not. how do i know? well it takes 2 different clutch shafts, as i can see in both photo's. and 2 different pres. plates also. the clutch disc will fit either way. pretty sure you damage the clutch disc before distorting the pres. plate. i have all kinds of tractors here from over fifty years of collecting them, with these TA's , from the super w6ta right up to the 660 and every model in between that has them. and yes all internationals not farmall's except one 560 farmall , but dont matter its all the same ta and clutch. plus i have changed out a lot of clutches during the years since i was 14 years old on these tractors, so i do know a little about them. dewy said he has used the same p.p. only a new disc, so i presume that means the flywheel was not touched either. dewy go to the wreckers and get the input shaft, as that's what i use as seen in the pic. post a pic of your old disc and the new one if you remove it. there was heavy duty disc's and the standard ones, but that should not matter.

 

[rustred]

what about a TA?

 

[rustred]

I'm going to get an alignment tool this time and not try to bolt that together after tractor was put together but I'm confused on which one to get when all the discs are one and 1/8 and the disc I took out was one and 3/32

explain better what u mean.

 

[dewy]

I'm going to split the tractor tomorrow. But I'm 98% sure I got the disc in right I believe I damaged the pressure plate when I push the tractor together one of the fingers got on the outside of the throwout bearing and then I tightened up the pressure plate to the flywheel and didn't notice the finger till I got done oh boy then I noticed it had to split tractor a couple inches to get it off there and it seemed okay I put it back together obviously something was not okay I hope the disc is okay and I think I'm just going to get another pressure plate and I'll inspect the disc tomorrow. What is the deal with the 3- 32 alignment tool when all the discs are one and 1/8. The disc I took out measures 3/32.

 

[dewy]

If the flywheel was turned and the PP mount surface to friction surface is wrong, the disc might not have enough thickness to pull the levers in near flat (as would be expected. Dewy does the lever on the outside move the TO beraing easily with it apart as in the photo? I also agree the Bolts in the cross shaft are correct. Jim

Jim I didn't turn the flywheel just cleaned it up with a wire wheel

 

[13fx]

Does you 300U have a live PTO? If not your comparing apples and oranges. Most did but your clutch in that picture look suspiciously different. I am not sure how the Rockford clutch and the other option (name?) compared. In your Farmall as I explained to rustred the splines you see are the live PTO drive splines. Where they set front to back is not affected by which direction the lined clutch plate has been installed unless you bent the he11 out of something tightening it down. When the tractor is back together you cannot see the machine clutch input splines or the lined plate hub in the center cushion. I am not disagreeing that it probably has to come back apart but I am not sure a smoking gun can be seen at this point.

What's interesting is as I compare his pressure plate and mine, they are not the same. I looked at a replacement pressure plate and see that all the ones listed look like the one he has, thinking that someone once upon a time changed the one on my tractor to something they may have had laying around. No matter what, only for sure way he's going to get to the bottom of it is to split his 300 again.