Ferguson TO-30 Head Gasket (again)

[jon_schram]

Sorry for the long post...wife says I ramble.

So I have a Ferguson TO-30 (z129) tractor that we use around
the place for odd jobs. It's been in the family on-and-off since new. We actually put a ton of hours on it every year, as it is my wife's go-to for scraping manure, any road work that needs done, running roto-tiller, mowing, etc. The Hupp under/overdrive makes it the fastest tractor on the farm by a wide margin and it is awesome for running down the road to check cattle at the lease.

So, about a year ago it blew a head gasket while working it hard using a pto post hole digger. Since the compression was getting pretty low and the engine seemed tired, I went ahead and did an in-frame overhaul with new pistons, sleeves, etc. Also converted it over to electronic ignition at that time. Rebuild went great, and it was like having a new tractor for a time. I had an engine shop look over the head when I was doing the in-frame.

About 6 months ago the head gasket blew and we were getting oil into the radiator. No big deal, figured I got a bad gasket or neglected something during the rebuild. Threw a new head gasket in (properly torqued, etc) and went on our way.

Now I think I've blown the head gasket again. Getting coolant into the crank case. I know that z129's are prone to cracking, but I don't think that it ever got hot, and it was 50/50 antifreeze through the winter so I'm sure it didn't freeze.

Anybody had frequent head gasket problems in a Continental engine? Any advice, beyond just putting yet another head gasket in? Tractor runs great (besides the frequent head gaskets letting go), and is super handy around the farm for what we do.

I'm seriously considering dropping it off at a shop to have them work on it, but I'm afraid of what they will charge me to "diagnose" the problem and put yet another head gasket in that may or may not permanently solve the problem. I am also really considering putting in a can of head gasket gunk, but I've never had any luck with that crap.

Hopefully somebody here has an idea or advice that will keep me from having to tear into this thing every 6 months.

Thanks

 

[Dieseltech]

Is the head hardware being re-torqued when hot? If not that alone could be why it's letting go.

 

[Steve@Advance]

There are a couple other ways coolant can get in the oil. The blocks are prone to crack, for no good reason, and the orings under the liners.

When the head was off before, if any of the liners came up, they will get sediment from the water jacket underneath, causing the oring to leak, and holding the liner up so the head doesn't sit on the block as it should. There is s spec for how far above the deck surface the liners should stand, I don't have the book here to check, but it's just a few thousandths.

Oil getting in the coolant is unusual. The oil coming up to the rockers is metered, just enough comes up to oil them. That leads me to wonder if the back liner might have come up, holding the head up off the block surface in the oil passage area.

Something to check...

 

[jon_schram]

I can't remember now if I re-torqued this last time around or not. I'm sure I did during the in-frame after adjusting valves.

 

[jon_schram]

Yeah, the liners stuck out of the block the correct amount when I did the in-frame. Now you have me wondering if something else isn't afoot here, though. I guess it's very possible that I have a bad o-ring...but when I slapped on a new head gasket my problem went away for quite a while.

I'm going to talk to a buddy of mine today who has re-done a couple Ferguson's and see what he thinks.

Thank you both for your suggestions/ideas.

 

[Steve@Advance]

Just checked the liner height above the block deck spec.

Should be .0020 to .0045.

 

[Duner Wi]

Check the sealing surface where the head meets the block.
It is possible to nick the head sealing surface when removing
combustion chamber carbon buildup with power tools. A very little nick can leak .

 

[John Deere D]

Did you check the SURFACE on the HEAD to verify that head surface was indeed flat?

The last TEA-20 head,I had the HEAD Machined FLAT.

Torqued the HEAD in three steps and then again after engine was up to 185 deg F.

Bob

 

[fusion]

I would get all new bolts, the old ones may be stretched
run it till it get good and hot and after it cools down re torq.

 

[54FergieTO30]

(quoted from post at 12:02:27 08/14/17) I would get all new bolts, the old ones may be stretched
run it till it get good and hot and after it cools down re torq.

I had a very small issue with a new head gasket after an initial startup after a rebuild. I was amazed how loose the head bolts were when I went to retorque them after it ran and got hot for the first time.
I now have over 20 hours on the new rebuild and no issues since it was retorqued.
By the way those bolts on the spark plug side are a bit of an issue to get a regular torque wrench on.

 

[jon_schram]

Think I got her "fixed"....crossing my fingers.

Took it over to my friends house today so he could give me his professional opinion. He owns a handful of Ferguson's, so I figured even if we couldn't diagnose the problem he would eventually tear it down and fix it if I left it there.

Tore off the gas tank and re-torqued the head bolts 75 ft/lbs. Several took an 1/8th of a turn or more to torque. The ones on the spark plug side are a pain. Flushed the radiator/block and used some Bar's permanent fix head gasket/block seal for good measure (in case it was a bad o-ring on a sleeve or whatever).

Put it back together, ran it for about 1/2 an hour or so before letting it cool all the way down. Seems to have fixed the problem. My buddy told me to work the snot out of it to see if I was still getting coolant into my oil or vice-versa. He drove my truck and I pulled my heavy (3,500#) steel deck-over trailer 8 miles through the hills home with the Ferguson. Oil level didn't move a bit. Bladed our lane, which is over 1/2 mile long and very hilly...still no anti-freeze in the oil.

I appreciate all the advice and comments left. I had no idea Ferguson Tractors would have so many loyal and dedicated followers. Hopefully this will be the last time I'll have to tear into her for a long time.

 

[Bruce(OR)]

I did mine and thinly coated both sides of the gasket with cup grease. Did you? Most people don't read the manual
or use cup grease. It really helps to glue them in place once it sets up. Cup grease? John(UK) will tell you that
is wheel bearing grease.

 

[jon_schram]

I did not use cup grease. I like this copper head gasket sealant you swab on. I've pretty much used it on every motor I've ever built and never had a problem. From little Honda single cylinders to Mopar big blocks, and everything in-between.

I still don't know where the failure actually was. I had the head at an engine builder when I did the in-frame so I strongly doubt it was a warped head. I was careful with the block the first go around, and I inspected it well the second time in for dings, straightness etc. It's always possible that I have a bad o-ring on a sleeve and the block sealer gunk took care of this problem.


I ran the Ferguson around some more this evening scraping cow poop and moved a couple trailers. So far, so good as far as the oil and coolant go.

Now the Hupp over/under-drive is starting to whine at a whole new, annoying level...so I will probably be tearing into this thing much sooner than I would have liked. I have a feeling rebuilding the Hupp will not be fun at all...but it is probably the best feature of the entire tractor.