Fiat Allis Track Loader

donjr

Well-known Member

Getting down to a plan of attack on this old beast. It is a Fiat Allis HD7GB, 6 cylinder, with powershift transmission. She's been sitting for about 15 years, but not a total basket case yet.

But a friend and I went up today and poured a couple of gallons of diesel over the track links to try to help the pins free up. The machine was parked next to a little barn, and has a muffler cover on it, but no batteries. It was repainted at one time, probably about twenty years ago, and doesn't look like a high priced shine. But it's not as deep in the dirt as I thought it was, but the bottom tracks may still be a challange. Biggest problem is that freezing weather is here, and any diesel in good shape can be a challange to start now. This one has been sitting almost half the time since it was built. To add to where it is sitting, the stream down the hill is prone to flooding, and you can see where water has come up to the top of the tracks at one time or another, although the lady where it is says that happened a few years ago when we had local flooding from a hurricane. If it had been parked about fifty feet further toward the house, it wouldn't have any water that high. The only other trouble with where it's sitting is that a groundhog (d@mn things) drilled a hotel under the tractor, and we can get to the crankcase with out going to West Virginia and hiring a couple of miners. So I'm going to have to pull it forward some to get underneath of it to get to the drain plug.

I don't want to turn the engine over until after I make sure the crankcase is waterfree. I'm going to take my tractor up this weekend and try to raise the bucket and block it up. Then we'll see if we can tow it forward so we can drain the bottom of the crankcase. I have some concern there may be some water in it because the fill cap on the engine is missing and some may have come through it and entered the engine via the valve cover. The oil on the stick looks OK but is about an inch high. May not be anything, but no use in spinning a bearing on 15W-40 water.

There is a shed with electric about fifty feet away, so I think we can put a lamp under the crankcase to heat the oil up before we try to start it, also. But I doubt seriously if we get that far this weekend.

The next trick will be to get it on a trailer and out to a road. The lane is narrow and has a narrow bridge, so a semi is out. I started thinking I have a 10 ton tag along, so I'm going to rig up a pintle hitch for my 6400 and use it to tow it out. If we can't get the Allis started, we may be able to use a block and tackle setup to tow it up onto the trailer. No matter what we do, it ought to be an interesting Mac and Myer mechanical misadventure.

Still need some advice from a guru. Is there any transmission release on this tractor? I don't have a book, and it might mae things a bit easier if we know beforehand. Thanks.
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donjr
Take a big dozer with you!
My 1965 HD7G weighs 24,000 pounds.
You are supposed to put a bar through the tracks to keep the tracks from turning. (This prevents drive damage.)
HTH
Brian
 
Don't wanna hear that. Will 10-20 feet hurt? We need to get this thing a few feet forward or backwards to get to the oil plug. I can kind of live with trying to get it started closer to where it is, but we gotta get to the crankcase first.
 
"nother question- is your machine clutched or powershift? That may make some difference--
 
you better have one BIGGGGG TRACTOR. we moved a cat 977 and it took a D7 to do it. that old Allis is a big block of iron.to lift that loader frame up no tractor will do that.
 
My AC book list the 7Gb as made 69 to 74, Has tubo AC 3500 engine 426 cubes 116 Hp. Has two ranges forward and reverse PS with Torque converter. Weight 27,500 with 1.75 to 2 yd bucket. Has 5" lift cylinders and 4.5" bucket cylinders. Hydraulic pressure is only 1500 psi, so that bucket and frame assembley is HEAVY!!

I don't know that particular machine but with a PS transmission it should roll freely without engine running as long as there is no brake on.
 
Don't want to lift the loader frame, just the bucket and arms, then place a couple of wood blocks between the loader arms and frame to hold the bucket up. That will aloow us to move the tractor without dragging the bucket,
 
no trans release of any kind and I doube that you have a big enough tractor to shake it lose from the ground after that much time.

why was it parked all those years ago? if wery much is wrong its just scrap iron and spend you money on a good running unit.
 
Were would have to be brakes of some kind on it!!
Some of the AC loaders like the 12GB used foot peddle steering and I think they operated the brakes as well.

If you end up with engine troubles, Sam Winer motors in Akron Ohio had used 3500 engines and sleeve kits not long ago, may still have them.
 
To keep the bucket off the ground when towing run the chain/towstrap under the bucket them hook on to the nose of the machine. Then when you pull it will raise the bucket off the ground.
 
Great on parking brake question. Tractor was used to grade out hill for house by uncle, then house was built. Tractor was parked by uncle, then I think he got sick and passed or something. Nobody at place knew how to run it, so it's just been sitting and oxidizing. They need to move it, so I got it for better than scrap price, but I really think it isn't hurt too much to scrap yet, and I have a few projects in mind if she'll fire up. Even with a few bucks, it'll be some VERY cheap horsepower.
 
From what I gather, is this the same engine in the larger 7000 series? Do they have as much trouble as the engines in the farm tractors? They were prone to burning out the piston tops.
 
No. The first 7G models had the 344 cu in 4 cylinder Lanova combustion system which was the old Buda engine now made by AC after their take-over of Buda. In 63 the engine was upgraded to the 7000 series 344 cu in 4. This was the AC redesign of the Buda engine to direct injection.
With the 7GB they went with the AC designed 3500 turbo charged 6 cyliner 426 cu engine.
 
donjr
In my HD7G operating and field service manual, it states that if it is necessary to push or pull the tractor to start the engine, push/pull in reverse with transmission selector in R2 this will provide hydraulic pressure so it will turn the engine over. So, you can move it in the rearward direction, it may even start for you!
Keep us posted!
Brian
PS My tractor has pedal/lever steering and a torque convertor. (an earlier version of yours)
 
once you lift or jack that loader up you could take a shovel and dig a small trench up under the tractor to drain the oil. if the ground is frozen you may need a small jack hammer. then i would pull all the glow plugs and squirt some kroil or wd40 in the cyl's before rolling. it may start to go but the surface rust on the cyl walls above where the pistons are may stop it and haveing some oil in there will help the engine get through that first complete revolution.maybe you could use a long hydraulic hose and connect your tactors hydraulics and tee into the loaders hydraulcs and use the in place cyls and valve to raise the loader with hydraulic power.
 
Thanks to you guys, I'se had a lot of great advice. Now if I can manage to to put some of it to use, we're going to try to make her first move tomorrow. Hopefully, she'll be in a new home next weekend.

Checked the trans oil yesterday, dieseled the tracks again, and generally messed around it some. Talked to the old owner, too. Seems he bought it from a local construction company, so I know it was used, but they also had a big shop, and kept their equipment up to date and pretty new. The owner was a first class guy, and is one of the main reasons our local farm fair has some great facilities that he donated, one of which is one of the best hooking tracks on the east coast, according to the NTPA pullers when they get on it.

Anyway, his son used it to grade out around his place, and parked it when he was finished tearing out some old barns and walls. All the work was done, and he started to rebuild the house and new barns. They just haven't had a need for it in fifteen years, so she sat. Old guy says he doesn't know of anything wrong with it, and it's a real hoss. They just want to get it out of the way. I'll let you know what happens. We ain't finished yet.
 
donjr
Any transmission oil mixed 50/50 with diesel is your best lubricant to free up anything on a diesel engine.
Be careful with the WD 40 and any penetrating oil as it is too hot for a diesel, the motor will knock very badly on startup!
This could damage the pistons where the ring seats.
BTDT!
Brian
 
Brian-
Hopefully a quick touch of ether after some amount of cranking will work.. Plans right now are to crank it with the fuel shut off to get some oil up into the turbine bearings first. The Northern Wizard told me he had a couple of new batteries I could borrow, so I figure it might not be a bad idea to turn it over with the starter a few times, if it will without actually starting it before we go for the gold. But I still have to get it off the dirt some to check the crankcase for water first. The electrical system also looks kind of trashy. Someone has had the panel off, and the regulator is hanging off it's bracket by the wires, with one or two broken. We're also going to put a 24 v hot box on it to boost it for starting since the weather has dropped below freezing. As long as the starter still works, she should fire when we cut some fuel in. I don't see a solenoid on the injector pump, so I assume it's a manual cut off from the throttle lever.

Help me here, HECTOR. Is that right? BIG QUESTION- How do you stop it? Fuel lever all the way back?

This thing also has a vernier cable hooked up to the injector pump- maybe to set the tractor speed constant? It's hooked up to the right front top of the injector pump, the throttle lever by the shifter is low and in the middle of the pump body. The vernier cable screws out to pull the lever rearward on the pump and has a push button you push on to put it forward. Be nice to know ahead of time.

We're going up tomorrw for a while, but not to start it. When and if we get it running, I want to be able to load it in one run, and the trailer isn't ready yet. Let you all know how we made out tomrrow.
 
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