New to me Super 90 pto issue

[Jobolt68]

New to forum and to the super 90 that I just bought. Everything seems to work now except the pto. It is a power shift and that works great, power steering seems good and smooth.
What I noticed, the detent for the pto is not there.
The pressure going to the pto clutch is only about 120 psi. Taken at the fitting near the fuel filters on right side.

I am going to have to split the tractor, I assume the line is rusted out going to pto. How can I fix the valve detent so it holds?

Side bar. The 3point hitch works but the valve gets stuck sometimes in the pump and I have to go physically push it down. Anyone know how to fix that. Thank you

 

[hymie2lt]

Does the PTO spin normally under load? I realize you have to hold the PTO lever to find out. If it spins normally under load the PTO itself is probably OK. However the
lever detent is simply a ball with a spring behind it, in behind the lever. Yes you will have to split to repair. Or put a tarp strap on it until you need to fix
something else inside.
Sorry, I have no experience with the 3 PT Hitches.
Wayne

 

[Jobolt68]

Thanks for the reply. The pto does not turn normally even without load. It just barely turns and only sometimes. I was figuring it would require a split. Could it be the clutch valve causing pressure loss or more likely the line to the pto clutch? Will splitting the tractor behind the transmission give me access to both of those? Can I also get to that pto valve to fix the detent from there? Sorry so many questions.

 

[hymie2lt]

Splitting the tractor there will give access to both....IF the problem is there. I have had the rear PTO feed line on one of my 90s with a break. Looked like some water was in there and froze....splitting the line. Another one had lost the connection, where you will be splitting.
The PTO lever, will need the same split. You will then have to take out the hydraulic pump to access the lever and the detent. Usually the spring just gets stuck with dirt and gunk, not allowing the ball to work in the detents.
Once you have the hydraulic pump out, you can access the PTO clutch packs. You will have to take the rear cover off to get at a snap ring that holds the pack in the housing, then it comes out the front. There will be a housing to take off the front too.
There is a possibility that the front PTO feed line is out of place, or damaged. If this one is the problem, it will require another split at the clutch. You can get some access to it through the PS pump hole. Take the PS (Power steering) pump out and FEEL around the bottom and near the far side. You should be able to feel it, but not see it.
When you are splitting....you will need to drain all the hydraulic oil. There are 3 drain holes. 2 on the left side, and one under the rear cover. If your 90 is a normal WR model you will have to move the drawbar to one side to find it. It is through a hole in the drawbar housing. It will usually be full of dirt but will be there.
Is your 90 a standard or multi-power version? I have 10 running 90s here on my farm, 4 are multi-powers....no gas versions, all diesels.
If you need parts, I have a large supply of new and used parts. Some parts are getting hard to find, but most you might need are still available.
When your tractor is running at idle....does the PS turn the wheels easily, and does the tractor squeal at the end of both strokes? It should....that is the releif valve releasing, showing that your PS pump is putting out good pressure.
Where are you located? I am in Saskatchewan Canada.
Wayne

 

[Jobolt68]

Thank you. That is all great information. This in my second Massey and first super 90 (lots to Learn). I am in indiana so just a little south east of you.
It is a multi power model and the multi power seems to work good the little I have used it. I am not sure what WR means.

The steering feels good even at idle however it does not squeal at the end of the stoke even in higher rpms.
The pressure going to the multi power and pto when cold is only about 130-140 and warm it drops to 100-120. Could the steering pump be the problem and not the lines.

 

[hymie2lt]

WR means Wheat and Rice model. There are also row crop versions (Tricycle) and high arch (Jacked up)....maybe a couple others?
A weak PS pump can affect the PTO. Usually by not fully locking the plates together so they do not slip. If they slip they can warp and then will need to be replaced, but then they will turn all the time. Yours turn intermittent? This tells me the oil flow to your PTO is not consistent. Oil lines or valves not working properly. When you get in to fix the detent ball on the shifter, you will have to look at the valve and everything else to see if there is something not right or worn. Hopefully something easy like a bolt not tight enough?
It does sound like your PS pump is a bit weak. I cannot remember what the pressure should be, but I think your numbers sound low. You may want to look at the seal kit inside. There are 4 components in there. The big black one that holds the other 3....DO NOT DAMAGE THIS ONE. You cannot get another, if it is not broke the others we can work with. A new seal kit may NOT fix the pump up completely, but it could help.
Wayne

 

[Jobolt68]

Mine is wide front and maybe row crop? The rear axle is not straight. It has the Perkins diesel, runs great no blowby. I will get some pictures when I get it out. Not a bad looking tractor. There is a leak under the power steering assist unit that I will need to address at some point but not a priority yet.

I wouldn t consider pto intermittent it has turned very slowly a couple of times but not really working. Got ready for the split last night setting up my blocks and got everything drained. Removed steps and all but four bolts holding it together. Probably going to wait till the weekend to do the actual split so I can have time to focus on it hopefully.

What am I going to have to look for when I start opening it up? Are there lines or linkages that I need to look for that may be hidden? I am waiting on a service manual the seller is supposed to get me but hasn t yet. Hopefully soon.

 

[hymie2lt]

There should be some light wires, and the PTO shifter linkage will have to come off. Your PTO shifter is beside the gear shifters right, or under the seat?
Once you get to the actual split there shouldnt be anything holding. There are a couple of couplers inside that should slide off when you split. The rear PTO line will
be there and should come out the front after split. Check it for damage. Then the hydraulic pump will need to come out....stand pipe on top to remove, and the two
hydraulic pump mount pins on the side come off with two nuts on each, the pins should come out and the hydraulic pump should be free. There will be a spline on the back
to pull out. You can then look at the PTO shifter lever and fix the detent. see if there is anything there that could cause your PTO to work eratic.
Wayne

 

[Jobolt68]

Thank you sorry for the late reply we have had a busy few days with the storm that came through. I haven t gotten back to the tractor yet. I set up a cradle for it and started disconnecting things and removing steps and bolts, however I think I am going to redo the cradles after some thought. Hopefully I will be able to get back to it next week.

 

[Jobolt68]

Good afternoon. I split the tractor today and found the problem. The back drain plug rubbed a hole in the line. How do you change that line out? I assume there is not a repair for it.

 

[Jobolt68]

I spoke too soon. I have dug a little deeper and the line is ok. The clutch seems to be actuating with 120psi of air. It also doesnt seem to be leaking like I thought it was. So the problem maybe in the transmission area.

 

[Jobolt68]

A couple of things that seem to be a problem inside the rear split. The coupler for the rear drive is worn badly enough I want to replace it. Also I can not seem to get the housing out to remove the pto clutch. I removed the snap ring and the four mount bolts but the housing isnt budging. Does the bearing need to be removed?

 

[hymie2lt]

Sorry, I didnt get back sooner. Went away for the weekend.
Yes the bearing attached to the shaft that the coupler came off needs to be removed. The one inside the 4 bolts you removed. You will have to remove the PTO support that is around the front of the PTO Pack, The PTO pack should come out then.
Did you say there is a hole in the line by the drain plug?
The coupler you need is no longer available, but I should have some used ones here, if you need. Are the shaft and pump splines OK?
Wayne

 

[Jobolt68]

I can not figure out how to remove that bearing. It has a tab bent down into a slot like a torqued bearing should have, when I tried to turn it it didnt move. I decided to get clarification before I break something.

The coupler teeth on the aft side are worn about half way. The splines on the shaft seem fine. Let me know if you have one and what you would like for it.

The line was not punctured, we applied air to it and it looked like it was blowing the residual hydraulic fluid right there at that spot. However, we were wrong and the line is fine.
Everything in the rear end seems fine. When I apply air to the line and engage the pto I can watch the clutch pack flex like its engaging.

On a different note. I capped off the transmission line just forward of where the test pressure gage is installed for the return PS pressure. I applied 120psi air pressure to the line where the rear end splits pressurizing the return system in the transmission. The gauge didnt hardly move and there was a lot of air inside the transmission around the power shift clutch. I tried turning power shift on and off but that didnt seem to change anything. I assume all of the access is through the top of the transmission so my question is, is removing the transmission from the engine going to help me with fixing that? Seems like since its a dry clutch there wouldnt be access from the front.

 

[hymie2lt]

That bearing should have a nut with 4 tab slots, the tab lock washer and another flat washer, before the bearing.
Your clutch should be a wet clutch if it is a multi-power? There is a clutch pack with two discs that engage with hydraulic oil pressure.
Behind this clutch pack will be a valve that could be causing your PTO problems. It is located in the front transmission cover, and is activated with the foot clutch. It is a dump valve that stops the PTO with the foot clutch. If this is stuck open a bit, it could be your PTO problem. The Lot of air in the transmission you mentioned....is this air leakage?
Wayne

 

[Jobolt68]

Yes to the air leakage. It seems like it is leaking somewhere around the clutch pack for the power shift.

It is a wet clutch but there is an opening that I can look in and see the flywheel. I will have to look at that again this evening after work.

How much torque does that but that holds the bearing on usually have I was trying to get it loose with a spanner and it was driving the tractor. Lol.

 

[hymie2lt]

There are two O-rings where the MP Clutch pack rides on the transmission shaft, might be leaking, but you said the MP works OK?
That nut on the PTO giving you trouble, might need a quick rap with a hammer on the spanner to loosen it. I dont have a spanner so I usually just hit it with a punch, to loosen it.
That flywheel should be the clutch pack...it is about 5-6 inches thick.
If you go to Agco parts books online they show exploded diagrams of everything.
Can you reply to my E-mail....bottom right classic view. I might send you some photos, and they usually work better through E-mail.
Wayne

 

[Jobolt68]

Thank you for all the help Wayne I really do appreciate this. I came home and set the brakes and popped the nut right loose. The bearing is still stuck I am trying to figure out how to get it loose and the housing out.

Since all the stuff has to come off the top of the transmission to get into that area I may start there while waiting on parts so I can put the rear end back together.

 

[Jobolt68]

I am a dork. I was prying and looking and prying and looking. Lol. I didnt realize the two holes in the bearing housing was threaded. Two minutes it was out after I realized that.

The ball bearing for the detent is really stuck. Does it fall out normally? Or it is swedged in

 

[hymie2lt]

The ball bearing will have a spring behind and will be rusted in. Put some penetrating oil in, and try to tap it back lightly. It should come loose and then you may be able to pull it out with a magnet. Dont tap it too far and wedge it tight.
Did you get my E-mail and photos?
Wayne