Starter Problem

[Stephen Newell]

I'm trying to replace the starter solenoid on my Chevy van. Starter 1 is the one I'm working on and starter 2 is an old one off of a older van. The first solenoid wouldn't function so I took it back and the second one is doing the same thing. When I connect 12V to A on starter 2 it actuates and there is no resistance with an ohm meter between B & C, it completes the circuit and would work. On starter 1 nothing happens except the solenoid gets a bit warm. I made sure the starter was grounded for the test. Am I doing something wrong or did I buy two defective solenoids which were different brands?

 

[cole in mo.]

What happens on #1 if power is hooked to post B?

 

[Case Collector]

Do you have a good ground to one of the small terminals ? Some solenoids have an internal grounded small terminal and some of them need a ground wire to one of the small terminals.

 

[Stephen Newell]

When I had the first new solenoid I completely installed it with power to #1 and it did nothing. This time around I just bench tested it so far so I will give it a try and get back.

 

[Stephen Newell]

There was never a ground attached to the solenoid. I'm not sure the new one needs one. The repair manual I have says to test the solenoid to run a battery jumper cable between the + on the battery to the S on the solenoid(which I'm calling A) and the starter should function. The only other thing I'm doing is run the negative cable from the - on the battery and the body of the starter.

 

[M w J]

The little posts have a letter by them when power gets to 1 of the small posts it should activate the solenoid the other small post most likely will not have any thing attached to it that post is used when a resistor is in the system and would send higher voltage to the coil while starter is cranking for easier starts older chevy and John Deere used it. What are the letters by the small posts?

 

[Stephen Newell]

I ran a jumper cable from the positive post on the battery to B and then ran a seperate wire from the positive post on the battery to A and got no voltage to C. I did get .5 volts to the terminal R opposite S (which I'm calling A)

Everything I do or read says the solenoid is defective but on the other hand I can't believe I bought two of them doing the same thing.

 

[Steve@Advance]

The winding inside the solenoid that pull the plunger in is grounded through the C terminal. Sounds strange, but that's the way they did it.

So, in order for the solenoid to pull in, the starter windings must be intact, that's what pulls in the solenoid.

Starter # 1 probably needs brushes or there is an open circuit inside it.

 

[M w J]

S gets power only When key is turned to start that kicks in solenoid Battery cable hooks to big post and then the starter should turn

 

[Ozlander]

What happens when you apply power to post C?
Hint, starter should run.

 

[MARK ROBKE]

Does your motor spin if you apply voltage (with a pair of jumper cables) to C, your motor terminal? When you put voltage to A which is the S terminal, can you read voltage on the metal base of the solenoid ? And use a 10 guage wire minimum to jump the solenoid. If it has voltage on the base, it is not grounded to the starter. With the solenoid disconnected from everything, you should have 3-5 ohms resistance from base to S (your A) terminal. Compare this on the old starter #2 that does work. Your B should be an R or an I and I believe it should have continuity to your C, the motor terminal all the time.
Also, did the plunger move freely and push the bendix out easily when you had the solenoid off. If it does not move, the solenoid can"t complete the circuit between B (battery) and C (motor). Mark

 

[Stephen Newell]

Yes, If I put power to terminal C the motor will run. I didn't check the body of the solenoid and see if there was power there. I will check that in the morning. I did use a 10 gauge wire to run power to the A (which is S) terminal. I have later found out the R terminal was to bypass a coil resister which doesn't matter since the van has a electronic ignition. The bendix did move easily.

 

[Stephen Newell]

The starter motor ran when power was put to terminal C.

 

[Stephen Newell]

The small terminals on the solenoid are marked S and R. I'm only using the S terminal. The R was to bypass the coil resister.

 

[mgriff543]

Make sure you are using the correct solenoid. There are 2 that will fit that starter. The older delco D981 style and the newer D984 style. Your starter 2 has a D984 and starter 1 has the older D981. If you put the older style solenoid on the smaller D984 plunger it won't engage the drive and cause the exact symptoms you describe. HTH Mike

 

[Stephen Newell]

Yea, I think that's it. I just found out the new solenoid has an interior diameter of 1 3/16" where the old solenoid has a interior diameter of 1 3/32".

The picture shows the old solenoid that I'm replacing next to the one they sold me. It's the third one so far. I think I'm spending more on gas trying parts than the parts cost.

 

[Bob]

Most likely, the starter has failed, o rthe brushes are bad. Let me explain...

There's 2 windings in the solenoid.

One end of each is connected to the "S" terminal.

The other end of one winding is connected to the metal frame of the solenoid. This is the "hold" winding.

The opposite end of the other (HEAVY) winding is connected to the terminal that you identify as "C", and grounds through the starter windings.

This winding draws lots of current/makes lots of magnetism and "pulls in" the solenoid. At that point, when the contacts close in the solenoid and send battery power to the starter, it is no longer effective, and doesn"t need to be, as the current through the "hold" coil is adequate to keep the solenoid "pulled in".

To test your repaired "starter assembly", with a good pair of booster cables, ground the starter frame with the (-) cable, attach the (+) clamp to the terminal you have chosen to call "B", then jumper battery + to "S" and enjoy the starter operating.

If it goes NOT operate, likely the brushes are worn out (or there"s some other failure) that interrupts the path to ground of the "pull in" winding.

THIS diagram is for another brand, but is set up EXACTLY the same as your Chevy van"s starter.

<img src = "http://www.wiringdiagrams21.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/outlander-starting-system-circuit-diagram.png">

 

[Stephen Newell]

The starter motor is still good. I think now they sold me the wrong solenoid. There is about 3/32" slop around the bendix.

 

[Mark - IN.]

Gosh, its been a long time since I've dealt with a Chevy stater and solenoid. Decades.

If you take a 12 volt battery and a set of jumper cables, and go from the negative terminal of the battery to somewhere on the starter, like the nose that sticks out on the front cover, thats your ground. Then take the positive from the battery straight to Terminal C, the moter will run because you've completed the circuit by bypassing the solenoid completely, but without the solenoid, the bendix won't engage...which is ok for the first test. Now, if you move the positive cable from the C Terminal to the B Terminal, nothing will happen because the circuit has not been closed (completed) yet. If you then take a screw driver and touch from Terminal A to Terminal B, it will act like your ignition switch and complete the circuit through the solenoid that will A) momentarily connect the 12 volts from Terminal B to Terminal C to spin the starter, and B) will cause the plunger within the solenoid to pull inward, pivoting the spinning bendix outward into the flywheel, turning your engine over.

If the starter spins when you go directly to Terminal C with 12 volts, the starter is good. If it doesn't, the starter is bad. If the starter is good, but fails to spin when you connect 12 volts to Terminal B and short Terminal A to Terminal B as an ignition switch does, chances are that the solenoid is bad. However, it could be the movement of the bendix that is preventing the solenoid from engaging it. The shaft that the bendix rides on in the starter could have a burr on it, or inside the bendix that is preventing the solenoid from engaging it...but regardless, the starter motor should still spin because when you short from Terminal A to Terminal B as an ignition switch would do, that should still apply voltage internally within the solenoid to Terminal C, that should cause the starter to spin, regardless.

I hope my memory serves me correctly. Good luck.

Mark

 

[mgriff543]

Yup, that's it. Just get the shorter solenoid and you should be good.