Starter questions

[TheFourPines]

Mid 60' Farmall: the push button starter isn't doing anything (and doesn't feel responsive - not springy like I feel I used to be) It was fine then it wasn't. Battery is new, cables are good. My assumptions are that either the button is bad, the wiring from the button to the solenoid is bad, the solenoid is bad or the starter is bad. How do I start figuring it out?

I was thinking I should be able to jump terminals on the solenoid firing the starter (if they are both ok) and that would point to button and/or wiring. If jumping the terminals still doesn't have any effect, would that then likely indicate the starter is toast?

Anyone have a diagram to show which terminals do what on the solenoid and how to jump it?

 

[SDE]

Use a jumper cable and go from the battery terminal directly to the starter. If the engine rolls over, the starter is good. Or you could go from the solenoid lug that the battery cable attaches to and go directly to the starter. I have the ford style solenoid with two small terminal. You can jump the solenoid, which bypasses the button. Or you can go to the button and jump those two wires. If that rolls the engine over, then everything else is working properly. Replace the button.

 

[used red MN]

So you do not know exactly which model number you
have? Must have a shed or two full of them if you
cannot remember which is which. I guess we are
counting on the fact that it is actually from the mid
60s. If it still has an original cap on the solenoid or a
good copy the 2 small terminals are labeled S and R.
The one labeled S is the one you want to jump to the
large terminal for the battery cable which is the most
distance from the starter case. I believe in most cases
originally IH wiring used an orange wire on the S
terminal. Do you know did the clutch have to be held
down to start the tractor? If so the clutch safety switch
which IH used on some models in that time frame may
also be causing your problem.

 

[Wisconsin Ron]

Take your time, use your head and be careful when jumping
solenoid terminals.

 

[used red MN]

Thanks for adding that Ron, usually I take the time to add warnings some how I failed this time. Yes make double sure you are checking for it to be in neutral or block the clutch down before jumping a solenoid!

 

[the tractor vet]

Mid sixty's Farmall covers a LOT of ground So let's nail it down to Model Then we can tell you the what fors and how toooooooo's a lot easier and where to start and where to stop . The Black semi soft PUSH button on them relie on the Rubber for spring back , the contact points under the Rubber can at times get corded , One can roll the rubber back and clean when in a bind . Next up is the contacts inside the solenoid and oce again if one is careful ya can take the black cover off and turn the contacts 180 degrees and clean up the disc and YOUR good to go .

 

[caterpillar guy]

With the push button switch out short the wires if it works then the rest is fine. If no start put a jumper on the clutch switch if starts then the clutch switch is bad. IF no go then look into the starter or solenoid for the problem. IF you short the solenoid and no go then probably looking at a starter. Though I would rock the tractor in high gear to see if it is stuck in the flywheel. Common problem in some IH tractors. Though not so much so in ones with an actual solenoid on the starter.

 

[TheFourPines]

Thanks everybody. Yeah mid-60s was too generic but it was late and I was tired LOL it's actually my son's tractor so I had to confirm with him. It's a 65H.

I'm going to start at the starter and work backward to the switch and let you know what I find. Thanks again for the help

 

[Charlie M]

You may want to recheck the model with your son or you made a typo - no such thing as a 65 H.

 

[TheFourPines]

Yeah, duh. Sorry. 65 560 (I think)

This post was edited by TheFourPines on 02/01/2023 at 05:12 am.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

There's nothing in the wiring or the starter that would change how the button feels. It's just a button. So, if the button feels like it is broken, it's broken.

You can verify by jumping 12V to the "S" post on the starter.

 

[560Dennis]

Dont know Hs but C s like to lock up starters . They usally stop at that same spot on the flywheel ring gear after quit running ,so that where
they wear most, makes it easy to lock up .

I would paint a mark on the front pulley with welder marker paint stick . After I would run it out of gas when finished. I would turn the
engine a 1/8 turn with crank to reposition for starting next Time . If I remembered that is. I also would keep a 3/4 inch open end wrench in
tool box to back out locked starters bolts free release locked starter . Back bolts out a few turns and grab back of the starter and pull up
and down ,it will snap free. Not the fastest way but easiest for me.

I got tired to this issue on the Cs so one by one I got new ring gear from Yesterday s here and split tractor and replaced ring gear . Wanted
to be done with this issue . Im not the only one to uses this tractor, so Time to end the aggravation.

 

[DeltaRed]

Yes,you can jump it. But damn careful. If it is in gear it can start and run over you. Happened to a local farmer several years ago. Ran over his head and crushed it. Killed him.Always make sure it is
in neutral!

 

[DeltaRed]

H was made from 1939 to 1952.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

(quoted from post at 06:12:21 02/01/23) Yeah, duh. Sorry. 65 560 (I think)

This post was edited by TheFourPines on 02/01/2023 at 05:12 am.

The nitpickers out there are going to tell you that they only made 560's from 1959 to 1963 and demand that you get the year right.

What's important is having the correct model.

 

[TheFourPines]

Someone out and jumped 12 volts from the positive lead on the solenoid to the s terminal. Got a little spark but nothing else. Did the same thing directly from the battery and again got a little spark but nothing else. That means the starter itself is in some way bad or at least locked up right? That does not eliminate the solenoid, switch, or wiring as a potential problem it just jumps over them.

Is the next step to remove the starter and solenoid and is there some sort of inspection and or bench testing that can be done?[

[/img:be2518d8a1]

 

[Charlie M]

Make sure your starter isn't locked up against the flywheel. The old farmalls will do that with things get worn. Can you move the engine by turning the fan blade?

 

[TheFourPines]

I am able to wiggle the crank back and forth a bit by turning the fan by hand.

 

[matthies]

Looks like the left small terminal got a little hot.

 

[TheFourPines]

(quoted from post at 20:21:41 02/01/23) Looks like the left small terminal got a little hot.

That's the S terminal