TE-A20 and pulling dangers.

[Paul Hearsey]

Hi, gang. OK, here's a somewhat silly question: I have a 1950 Ferguson TE-A20, bought recently from my rancher neighbour. He is convinced this tractor is a hazard and should never be used to drag firewood logs, pull a harrow etc. ( I have an adjustable drawbar on the lower links with adjustable stays to fix the drawbar at the desired height). He is certain it will flip over and kill the operator (me). I know Harry Ferguson deliberately designed the 3pth to direct increasing downward force on the front axle as the load increased, so as to eliminate the flip-overs common in the pre-Ferguson era. Am I right in believing excessive load will simply cause my tractor to spin its wheels, as happens at any tractor pull? I have plans for this tractor and don't want to be afraid to use it. By the way, what is the maximum implement weight (rotovator, discs etc. ) I can handle? The manuals I have don't say. Thanks! Paul

 

[phil(va)]

Dead pulling from the 3 pt hitch, such as pulling stumps, etc., is not advisable, but the activity you speak of should be no problem. As you say the draft control of Harry"s hitch allows the pull to be distributed forward, if the hitch is down, as with a plow in the ground. But raising it and using it to pull dead weight can cause a flip or at least for front wheels to raise. As for implement weight, your hydraulics can lift most anything you care to attach that will fit a category I hitch. However, the front of the tractor will get light with a double gang disc or anything heavier than that, say above 500 lbs or so. Of course you can add weights to the front. In a field with the disc down you won"t have a problem. But if you drive your tractor up on a trailer with a heavy implement it can get dicey when you start up the ramp.

 

[Bob (Aust)]

Don't ever try to pull a stump or logs using the top hitch only. Death is swift!

Don't try to pull a stump with a chain attached to a tool bar or implement.

You will not flip the tractor with any ground implement such as plough etc as the Ferguson system forces the front wheels down.

Buy and install a ROPs (a legal requirement in Australia). That $300 investment may one day save your life.

Be very aware of tractor angle when driving around the contour of a slope.

If loading the tractor on a truck or trailer via steep ramps, reverse up - don't drive up forwards.

Treat it with the care and respect it deserves and it will treat you very well.

I forget the exact lifting weight (at which the bypass valve activates) but I seem to recall it is 850 pounds on the three point linkage. You should not tip the tractor by direct lift at the linkage as the bypass valve will activate before the front wheels lift.

Fergies are not inherently dangerous but sadly, many deceased operators were.

Normal commonsense and care is all that is needed.

 

[Jeff-oh]

I would like to add another perspective. Pulling a down log or harrow may be done but the attach point must must must be lower than the rear axel.

If you attach above the axel the tractor can flip.

The Ferguson system works as you describe if and only if you are using a 3-point implement. (you said you want to pull a drag...) is this a trailed drag... i.e. only attaches at one point? or a Ferguson system drag?

If you are not using Ferguson system implements then the system may not be propery set up.

Please do not be scared off of the tractor by our "WARNINGS" but good common sence is required and I commend you for asking up front.

If you have a specific implement you want to use please ase and the group can advise how best to use it.

As for a rotavator, the TEA-20 is geared too high to give satisafactory performance with out a speed reduction gear... Hupp, Sherman or Ferguson hi-low transmission.

If you mow make sure you have a OCR on the PTO.

Jeff

 

[Anonymous-0]

Look under the rear of the tractor beneath the axle . There may be some threaded holes, that is where you attach a towing device [fabricate]for logs etc no higher otherwise it's trouble with a Capital D.

 

[AussieDoc]

I've attended a few tractor flips, roll overs and run overs. Not pretty. The only survivor I found had R.O.P.S.

I've often thought about attaching a hook under the front end and towing backwards for pulling stubborn things. I would seem to be the safest way.

Respect yourself, family and physics. If in doubt don't do it.

Now in saying all that, I should get R.O.P.S. myself. :shock:

 

[tractorfix]

The belly mount swinging drawbar kit sold by the new holland dealer for 8n's goes right on a fergie. You can then pull anything you want to your heart's content. They're about 100 bucks.

 

[john[mo]]

if you have a long strap try running the strap from the front bumper under the length of the tractor and out the back to pull the log. this can be used for straight pulling and have to be careful about the strap getting near a horizontal exhaust pipe. tractor will not flip using this method. i pull backwards sometimes with front bumper but your tread is not made for traction in reverse.

 

[Jerry/MT]

For the three point hitch system to be used properly, there must be force feedback via the upper link to the hydraulic system. Your drawbar does not have any conection to the upper link per your description so there cannot be any feedback to the Ferguson hydraulics.Secondly, the system is designed or loads that are below the rear axles, like the draft load on a plow or a disc. Further, these load are reduced by lifting the plow since draft force ~ depth for a given plow, soil, and speed.
Avoid pulling stumps or logs with a tractor. A cat is better. But if you have to, NEVER PULL ANYTHING WITH YOUR TRACTOR LIKE A LOG OR A STUMP WITH THE PULLING ATTACHMENT POINT LOCATED HIGHER THAN THE REAR AXLE.

Now that winters on the way, if you park your tractor ouside in freezing weather , set the tractor up so you have to back the tractor up to drive it away. If the wheels freeze to the ground and you try to go forward, the result is a backward flip!

 

[Paul Hearsey]

This topic is more complicated than I first thought! Jerry, I can either connect the two upper drawbar stays (a) to the top of the rear end, via the two mounting ears or (b) to the single connection point tied via spring and pushrod to the draft control. Option (a) gives me a rigid, fixed setup and I can then lock the control lever so as to disable it. Option (b) also requires the same lockout of the control lever, and is actually shown in my Operator's Manual. Quote: ' the normal setting is 18" from the drawbar to the ground, but it may easily be raised or lowered to suit...... be sure that the hydraulic control lever is locked down with the safety stop...... do not use the (26 inch adjustable) drawbar without the drawbar stays'. I would think much lower than 18" would be best. So..... should I simply follow the Manual's advice to the letter? Thanks to all. Paul

 

[Jerry/MT]

What manual are you refering to?

 

[Bob (Aust)]

[b:8b5393a347]Jerry[/b:8b5393a347], that comes from Page 11 of the Ferguson "[i:8b5393a347]Carburettor Engine Reference Book[/i:8b5393a347]" (Pub No 819 096 M1) which states:

[b:8b5393a347]Adjustable Drawbar. Fig. 4 & 5[/b:8b5393a347]
The normal setting is 18" (457 mm) between drawbar and ground when the lower links are horizontal and notches in the stays are in line. The height range is between 10" (254 mm) and 23" (584 mm) above ground.

By raising the drawbar i.e. shortening the stays, traction is increased with trailed machinery. Lowering the drawbar will tend to keep the front end of tractor down at expense of some loss of traction. Etc

Bob in Oz

 

[Paul Hearsey]

Jerry, I'm quoting from a scimpy little Operator's Manual I bought on EBay, really just a dozen and a half pages covering the most basic of the basics. I did think the info on using the drawbar was useful, though. Maybe I just answered my own question? Tie the stays to that upper link connection point, the one coupled to the draft control.

The reason I'm asking so many detailed questions is (a) I'll probably live longer doing it the right way and (b) my rancher neighbour, 30 years in the business, has a low opinion of newbies and I need to learn fast. He learned by trial and error, probably made lots of stupid mistakes along the way too, but didn't have know-it-all neighbours peering over his shoulder! Thanks for everything, guys,

Paul
'50 TE-A20

 

[Bob (Aust)]

All getting too complicated! I have a $20 vehicle tow strap with a loop in both ends. wrap the strap around the transmission with the "tail" of the strap under the tractor, back between the rear wheels. It is good for towing logs etc quite safetly, up to a couple of hundred pounds. You won't flip the tractor and if the load is too heavy, you'll simply lose traction.

Anything bigger than a couple of hundred pounds, get a bigger tractor!

Towing from the front, in reverse, will result in very little traction.

[b:2b717adde4]Paul[/b:2b717adde4], the Operators Manual you have is a reproduction of the original publication (which I have) for the TE-A20, TE-D20, TE-C20 and TE-E20. On the first page it has a warning "[i:2b717adde4]It is highly dangerous to pull anything from the top link connection.[/i:2b717adde4] YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED."

The Fergy is not inherently dangerous. Some operators are!

Bob in Oz

 

[Jerry/MT]

I guess my point is that for pulling loads other than ground engaging loads( plows, etc), the hydraulic system will not help you. The only case thtat I can think of where it might is draging a log on a chain and three point boom where if the log snags something, the hydraulics will lift the boom and reduce the drag on the log!

WHATEVER YOU DO, PLEASE DO NOT DRAG ANYTHING FROM THE REAR OF THE TRACTOR THAT IS NOT ATTACHED TO THE TRACTOR AT A POINT LOWER THEN THE REAR AXLE!
If the loads snags, since the center of rotation is at the contact point of the rear tire with the ground, the front end will be pulled down and you'll be safe from a tip over. If you pull from the rear using an attach point above the rear axle, the reaction to a snagged load will be to tip the tractor over on top of you. I don't know how to say it any simpler. The Ferguson hydraulics aren't going to save you. They are designed to work for loads where decreasing the depth of the implement reduces the load. You need to study the physics of this problem and play it safe. Every year someone gets killed trying to pull a stump using a chain attached to the top link or dragging a log from the top link position. It probably almost happened to your neighbor and he's trying to tell you to be careful and not do certain things. These tractor were not designed for forestry use, they are ag tractors. Look at the way a skidder hauls logs around and you'll understand the problem better.

 

[Jerry/MT]

I guess my point is that for pulling loads other than ground engaging loads( plows, etc), the hydraulic system will not help you. The only case thtat I can think of where it might is draging a log on a chain and three point boom where if the log snags something, the hydraulics will lift the boom and reduce the drag on the log!

WHATEVER YOU DO, PLEASE DO NOT DRAG ANYTHING FROM THE REAR OF THE TRACTOR THAT IS NOT ATTACHED TO THE TRACTOR AT A POINT LOWER THEN THE REAR AXLE!
If the loads snags, since the center of rotation is at the contact point of the rear tire with the ground, the front end will be pulled down and you'll be safe from a tip over. If you pull from the rear using an attach point above the rear axle, the reaction to a snagged load will be to tip the tractor over on top of you. I don't know how to say it any simpler. The Ferguson hydraulics aren't going to save you. They are designed to work for loads where decreasing the depth of the implement reduces the load. You need to study the physics of this problem and play it safe. Every year someone gets killed trying to pull a stump using a chain attached to the top link or dragging a log from the top link position. It probably almost happened to your neighbor and he's trying to tell you to be careful and not do certain things. These tractor were not designed for forestry use, they are ag tractors. Look at the way a skidder hauls logs around and you'll understand the problem better.