TEA 20 oil leak

[baldrick56]

Sorry for doing this one to death but I have a worsening problem with my TEA 20. In truth the problem started months ago on delivery of the tractor. Very slowly & tentatively reversing it off the trailer cos it was only my second time at the wheel and seemed to be like going backwards off a cliff onto the short ramps the trailer came with. Successfully unloaded there was a puddle of oil left at the back of the trailer deck but no more seemed to be coming out once it was on the flat.

Yesterday I needed to use the tractor for some rock removal / tree trunk shifting duties. Over the course of a couple of hours it was running at all sorts of angles nose up, nose down, canted over Left, canted over Right & every combination in between. Had to stop when my wife pointed out the oil pouring out from under the bellhousing no longer just a drip but a steady trickle. Dipped the oil both ends to discover the source the transmission seemed not to have moved but the engine was on the middle mark of the stick (how come there s three marks? - at least on mine). Driving back to the parking area the oil pressure seemed lower than usual (still in the green but more to the left than previously). This morning I ve been doing a lot of reading on this & other forums amongst which the following from Bob:

quote "[i:89443533af]With all due respect, the REAR OIL SEAL is the worst Challenge you could have ever set out to do, let alone with the engine still attached to the forward components of Tractor.
The Engine OIL should be drained, Oil Pan / Sump removed. Then at that time, the REAR BEARING BLOCK pulled away from the Engine block.
Working upside down trying to replace the rear Crank oil seal, I give you less that a 40% chance of a successful seal change out:[/i:89443533af]" quote

Now a word about the piece of paradise which the Fergie calls home its totally "off grid" no power, water, shed, hardstand, hardly any flat ground (Yup all those are on the "to do" list but none happened yet). All those pics I m looking at have people splitting the casing in nice comfy workshops or at least slabs what s wrong with people, don t they know a bit of hardship is good for the soul!

With all the above in mind my (cunning) plan is as follows:
1) buy two main seals plus one set of felt seals, plus pilot bearing, clutch release, and gearbox input seal;
2) Split the case, chock the front axle against engine and roll front away from back;
3) Remove clutch & flywheel & replace main seal as outlined previously on this forum (ideally also coat the joints downstream of the felt seals with some kind of modern magic pliable penetrating sealing goo);
4) Lower rear end of engine to just above ground & look for leak when oil has flowed to back of sump;
5) If leak apparent then first new main seal is scrap & must attempt felt seal replacement with attendant 60% chance of failure;
6) If no leak raise engine, replace flywheel, clutch, pilot brg, clutch release, gearbox input seal (these last cos you don t have the case split like every weekend) oh and 2nd main seal / felt seals would be scrap but I think I d be more than happy with that!;
7) Re-unite front & back half of tractor;

Plan B would be to clear sufficient space at home (120kM away), rent a trailer, haul tractor back, do the job in workshop conditions with full dismantling & engine inversion, rent trailer again & haul back to farm. Probably add about $500 to total Bill (& lots of time as how many other faults & fix ups am I going to find with that level of dismantlement? :-/ ).

Choose wisely which is where I guess I m looking for guidance (oh and if anyone s got a suggestion for the magic goo to backstop the felt seal joint areas with?).

 

[Bruce(OR)]

I will add two sheets of plywood to make your 'driveway' to work on.
I used a bottle jack on the front 1/2 and a rolling floor jack on the back 1/2.
I believe the bolts are 3/8-16 to hold the tractor together and some longer ones with the heads cut off make good guide pins for
reassembly.
When putting the tractor back together, leave the PTO engaged. You might have to turn it to rotate the trans shaft to align with the clutch
disc splines. Might need large wrench.
Wedges into the tractor body/front axle pin area to keep the tractor from spinning on the front axle pin. Don't bump it.
Replace clutch. New clutch disc are more steel and less asbestos, etc. Highly prone to freezing in place. New clutch will need to be held
open with a 'C' clamp on the clutch pedal or held open with a stick.
Other option is a Kevlar disc. Kevlar does not freeze in place but does not tolerate oil leaks.
Sealants of my choice typically range from Gray RTV to Permatex #2.
Pilot bearing removal is fill cavity at end of crank with grease. Hammer in dowel or punch equal diameter as the bearing. Grease goes in,
Bearing comes out.

Make sure the weep holes are not plugged and have a cotter pin in them.
Bouncing tractor rotates the cotter pins around and keep the holes clear.

 

[Charles in Aus.]

Really good succinct and pertinent advice Bruce . I would add , don't skimp on the plywood and fasten the sheets together with screws . Also when refitting put two long bolts with heads cut off into the bell housing holes as guides and use a ratchet strap to lightly guide the two halves together , makes working by yourself much easier .

 

[John Deere D]

Good evening baldrick56......
A "YT" member (possibly .."RON (ONT))" posted he was concred with an unacceptable oil leak...TEA -20..

Turned out a "PLUG" was missing over the AFT of the Camshaft..Engine BLOCK....

See picture....

Bob..

 

[baldrick56]

Thanks Bruce - plywood driveway would be a worthwhile addition,
Rob

 

[baldrick56]

Thanks Charles - fixing plywood together would be good preamble - plus finding flatest place I can to station the timber "slab"
Rob

 

[baldrick56]

Thanks Bob,
yes careful study of the whole area behind the flywheel before condeming the oil seal would be a good move.
Rob,

 

[Ron(Ont)]

Yes, that was my photo Bob. The cap was missed by the machine shop who serviced the block. Here is a link to some more photos. https://www.greyfergieforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=3040&hilit=overhaul&start=30

You may notice in some of my posted photos, I used a white 10' X 10' pop-up-tent with two side panels to work in. My work space had a roof but is open ended to the wind and dust. The tent helped a lot.

 

[John Deere D]

Located these pics on the internet......

Someday, I shall fab something as basic as these pics show...

Bob..

 

[Steve@Advance]

Hello Rick!

I've read your post several times, trying to put myself in your predicament...

After much consideration, I think your plan B would be the wiser choice.

For several reasons:

First, the tractor is running, it's leaking, but it's running. As you are the only operator, you are aware it is leaking and will keep close watch over it. Usually what appears as a "lot" of oil, in reality is not so much that you can't safely operate it and add accordingly.

Second, trying to do what you are setting out to do... Asking for trouble in so many ways!
Your safety for one, assuming you are working by your self, in a remote area, think of all the possibilities! Trying to split the tractor in major components is difficult in the best of conditions, (which I would not attempt to do in the first place). Much safer and easier to break everything down to the smallest manageable parts. I can take out a whole bunch of bolts much easier than a trip to the ER, or breaking something because it got away from me.

Third, think of the trips you will need to make back and forth to town because you need that one little thing that you can't go any further without until you have it, only to repeat the same scenario again and again...

Fourth, a hemorrhaging rear main seal is often a symptom rather than a single problem. Usually the reason the seal is leaking is because the main bearings are loose, and the engine is producing excess crankcase pressure because the rings are worn. Real good chance once you get the pan off and start looking around, you're going to find multiple problems, things are going to snow ball, it will either get put back together as a temporary measure, or it will get hauled back in boxes, then have to be put back in under the same bad conditions it was taken apart.

One more reason, stabbing the engine back onto the mainshaft is a difficult task under the best of conditions. Easy to damage the clutch disc or the pilot bearing if it is forced or allowed to hang full weight on the shaft.

If you will just keep it running for now, you can get your needed work done. Go ahead and run it through the summer, especially if you are needing to use it for mowing or other summer work. Keep a journal, write down every thing you find wrong, every leak, noise, problem... You may even decide it's not the tractor you really want to keep and invest in. Remember, once you tear into this, get ready to find other problems. Chances are the engine will need a complete rebuild, and so may many other components before it's over.

Also, this will give you time to find a cheap used trailer you can buy instead of renting. That is something you will use time and again for much more than just hauling the tractor.

Hope this helps, not trying to discourage you, just BTDT the hard way myself!

Oh, if you decide to keep the tractor, invest in a shop manual. It will pay for itself many times over in mistakes not made!

 

[John Deere D]

Pics ..TEA-20
Several parts Tractors I have..
Tell tale port....

Bob...

 

[John Deere D]

Pics to give you a glimpse of the inners of the TEA-20 Standard Engine.......
Bob..

 

[baldrick56]

Now that's brilliant - best ideas always the simplest And those jockey wheels are easily obtainable in any 'Repco' or 'Supercheap' - gives you support of the 'loose' end plus fine adjustment so important when reconnecting.
Thanks Bob

 

[baldrick56]

Thanks Steve,

a lot more 'food for thought' you've given me. As you point out safety should always be the number one consideration so no way I'm going to separate two ends of machine without adequate support on both halves. Take the point about reconnecting & have experienced that difficulty replacing car engines {I'm told it's a whole heap worse if you've got to reconnect a torque converter - there's always an upside hey }. One thing I didn't say initially is that the Fergie 'allegedly' has been 'reconditioned' before it came into my ownership so I'd hope there isn't an overly long list of worn & expired parts to discover if a full rebuild was attempted. That said once the two ends come apart it would make sense to check the crank end-float I guess - I'm imagining too much of that could definitely provoke premature seal failure?

Good point also about the need to keep 'running back' for stuff you forgot / discover necessary - but that's almost a weekly problem for life at the place - maybe I exaggerated (a bit) in my initial description, there is a 'Bunnings' about 30 mins drive away but I still hate forgetting stuff as you've lost at least an hour and a half of precious daylight if you need to make the trip.

Regards, Rob

 

[baldrick56]

Great, thanks again Bob,

Now I see why the seal has to be a split one to get past that flangy thing on the end of the crank - I'd assume the split should be uppermost when the seal's fitted (& 'glued' with the magic goop)?

From the other pic that spline for the input shaft looks substantial - my "universal clutch alignment tool" may need updating before I get to that bit.

Regards, Rob