TO30 - No Brakes - The saga continues!!

[ScottsTO30]

Hey all,

So life threw in a couple of curveballs but I am finally back to working on my TO30.

A while back I posted about no brakes on my TO30 and a couple of guys were really helpful in helping me troubleshoot the brakes themselves and I know that the brakes are fully functional, in good order, and seemingly adjusted correctly. When the wheels are turned by hand, the main brake and the individual pedals work as they should.

The one possible 'ah ha' thing that maybe someone might see as a possible issue, with her rear up on jackstands, when I start her up, while in neutral, the right wheel will spin (loosely, but still, even if I stop the wheel, it starts spinning again) while the left wheel is still. When I put her in second gear, again the right wheel will spin, but the left will barely move, but when I press the main brake, the right wheel stops and now the left wheel spins (almost as if the main pedal is acting like an individual brake?)!!!

I have checked and rechecked everything on the brakes and know that nothing is seized, poorly adjusted or anything. I have even tried swapping the brake springs between sides to see if I had bad spring or something but no difference.

Can the lack of main brake on the left wheel be anything to do with the axle adjustment?

Sorry if this seems like a crazy question, but I cannot fathom this myself!

Thanks for reading this and I would really appreciate any advice that would let me finally lay this issue to rest.

Scott.

 

[Steve@Advance]

What you are describing is perfectly normal.

The differential gears will allow whichever wheel that is easiest to turn. It's probably a difference in the brake adjustment causing one to slightly drag more than the other.

As long as there is no noticeable end play in the axle (which means the bearings are adjusted too loose), or excess brake drag, then everything is as it should be.

 

[Bruce(OR)]

Also known as an open differential. Now if you jack up the rear and turn one wheel forward, the other should spin backwards.
As for your brakes not working, you still have not pulled them apart to replace the oil soaked shoes, install "Sure Seals" or turned the drums, have you?

 

[ScottsTO30]

Hey guys.

Steve, Thanks for your advice.

Bruce. Thanks. You have helped me before. You may not remember my previous post but I taken the brakes completely apart. New axle seals, new shoes, brake drums verified ok by a local shop, so I have actually done the dirty work.

So now I am at the stage where I have detached the rods (rods not seized), adjusted the brake shoes, pulled the rods to the cross shaft and reattached them by holding up the pedal with a bungee cord and pulling the rods till the fork just reaches the shaft and then putting the pin through. All works when wheels turned by hand.

When I start her up, put her in second gear, right wheel turns (left wheel does not (but I am assuming Steve's response above covers that)). Press main pedal, right wheel stops as it should and left wheel starts spinning!! So no braking action on left wheel with main pedal down. When watching it, it is almost as if the main pedal is acting like one of the individual brake pedals, only stopping the one side and releasing the other. I have adjusted the shoes tight to the drum, and loosened them to, but no change. Tried changing the springs from one side to the other to see if I had a bad spring, but no change there either.

Any thoughts on what next?

Thanks again.

Scott.

 

[Steve@Advance]

Let it down and take it for a test drive,see what it does in real world conditions.

Common for drum brakes to have a break in period where the shoes are wearing in to fully contact the drums. If you have good pedal, but in effective braking, try driving it around while applying the brakes. As they wear in, they will become more effective.

 

[Bruce(OR)]

Way back in the day there was a brake shoe arc machine that would grind the edges of the brake shoes down to match the radius of the drum.
You could effectively achieve the same results by filing down the leading edges of the brake shoes with a coarse file.
DOT does not like those machines and they all went away. . .mostly. Good luck on finding one.
As for the drums, a new machined finish grabs better.
As was said, give it a drive and see what you get.

 

[ScottsTO30]

Hey guys.

Steven@Advance. Sounds like a plan. Will take a last VERY close look at the rods and then take her for a drive and see what happens. Did it before after putting on the shoes etc etc and had no brakes at all, but am hopeful that more recent adjustments I have done should at least give me 'some' braking action.

Will let you know.

Have a great weekend all.

Scott.

 

[ScottsTO30]

Okay guys,

So, this is where I'm now at.

Measured both brake rods real careful and both are at (or very close) to 37 9/16" from clevis pin to clevis pin.

Put the wheels back on, backed her out of the garage real slow (not using the brakes yet), then drove forward in 2nd gear. When I hit the main brake first time, the right wheel literally stopped and dug into the soil, while the left kept going. That was similar to how she was when up on the jacks.

Braking again after a few yards, the right brake was less effective than the first time and left brake was the same.

By the third and fourth try, she was no longer really braking much at all.

Jumped off, tightened up the left brake shoes a few clicks, then tried again. Did this a few times to see if I could get the left brake to 'bite'.

By the end, when I pressed the main brake, it seemed like she would slow a tiny bit, and it felt like the engine would stumble (I had her only on low revs) so I guess there was some kind of braking action that was making her almost stall??

Can I assume what I have described means I need to drive her round and round pressing on the brakes a lot to try and bed them in and as they do the braking will get more effective?

Appreciate you all taking the time to read and respond.

Scott.

 

[graham_in_NJ]

Considering the gearing of a tractor ,and unlike a car, those brakes won't stop that tractor while the engine is applying power. My TO-30 brakes work exactly the same as yours - they do nothing in gear under power, but will lock up on both sides when the clutch is down or in neutral.

 

[ScottsTO30]

Graham, thanks for your comment. I agree with what you say, and am going to drive her around for a week or two and just try to bed them in.

I will post an update in a week or two just so my experience/results might help someone here in the future.

Thanks again all.

Scott.

 

[Bruce(OR)]

The wife's Fergy has better brake action on one side versus the other. I will be taking it apart, machining the drums to a rough cut for a
better grip and then looking at filing the leading/trailing edges of the brake shoes to get a better bite fro the shoes in fresh drums.
That is my plan one of these days. Meanwhile I will contend with diminished action on one side.
You might have the same plan.

 

[ScottsTO30]

Hey All,

Have to say a big thank you to all who helped (again!

After a few days of driving her around the property I have got a pretty good braking affect. Bruce, like yours, mine is indeed very slightly stronger on one side than the other, but I will take that and may look at the leading/trailing edges after a month or so to see wear patterns and file if necessary but just happy the situation is now much improved/safer!

In the end, it seems most of the improvement came from balancing the brake rods on either side, and as one of mine was slightly bent (and replaced), that could have been affecting the geometry just enough.

I know it has been said on here before that 'the rods only effect the pedal height' but I am glad I listened to a couple of you guys who mentioned that despite the rods being very 'finicky' to balance, balance is important. I took a VERY close look at them, making small adjustments and measuring them constantly as I tested the brakes and it definitely helped towards resolving the problem.

Thanks again all. Now on to the next challenge!

Scott.