Too much to learn to loose people on here

[mshultz]

As of late, things seem to be getting a little tense on here. I've been a regular viewer of this site for probably 6-8 years, though I rarely post as there are usually people with more knowledge and experience that can do a better job with technical questions than myself. I have learned a lot in viewing the posts and responses on here from people all over the country. If you read this forum regularly, you can sort of watch the weekend guys work through a project over the course of a year or better with little questions here and there throughout the project, and then you see some guys that must either move a lot of stuff through their shops, or they have more simultaneous projects going on that I'd have ability to keep track of!

This is a neat little community of people with at least one common interest (CASE Tractors). The more people that are on here, the more potential there is for us to learn. As with any community, not everyone sees things the same (evident in the oil discussion!!). I think in most civilized communities, people can agree to disagree.

The greatest thing about all of these discussion boards is that the information that you get here is free. When someone gives me something for free, I try to show some appreciation for it. I realize that you need to sift through some of what you read on here, but if you follow along for a while you'll see 6-10 guys that sort of rise to the top - maybe not for the whole range of case products - but the stuff they do know about they know very well. The pay that they receive for thier time on here is about the same as they'd get for sitting in front of the TV in the evening.

On a personal note - I've known mEL for over 15 years probably since I was in 8th grade or so, and he has always been very generous in his sharing his knowlege and experience. He's usually a pretty soft spoken guy, and when he speaks I try to listen and soak up as much as I can as it is usually worth listening too. At one point in time in my high school career, I had considered trying to apprentice under him somehow to be a mechanic, and in many ways I wish I would have persued that option had there been a way to do it. Every time I read this forum I'm amazed at the vastness of his experiences. He's sort of my case hero.

With that being said, I'm sure that some of you other guys from other parts of the country have loads of experience as well, and I don't think that mEL or anyone else is trying to degrade that knowledge or experience.

Now that you've read 4 paragraphs more than you really cared to read, can we lighten up on each other a bit and just get on with helping guys fix stuff.

Sorry for the rant. Have a nice evening.

Mike Shultz

 

[BasketCASE]

I'm in the same boat as Mike. I read on here much more than I post. But what I do read, I learn from. Even if I'm reading differing opinions, there is something to be learned there. It's unfortunate that some people get offended when others "poo-poo" their statements and opinions, but at the same time it's understandable. In the 5 or 6 years that I've been following along here, I've seen great discussions and great advice. It's my hope that everyone here can take a step back, take a deep breath, and realize that every opinion and every piece of advice is appreciated by someone. As I've said, though I don't post here often, I've learned things I needed to know from other people's posts. Most of the time I don't say it, but it still is true, I appreciate everyone on here that takes time out of their day to help out someone else. Thank you.

Just my 2 cents, worthless as they are in this economy.

 

[Gary from Iowa]

Mike/BasketCASE- I certainly concur with your commets and think that the majority of the people using this forum feel the same way. I don't usually get up set when folks make inappropriate comments or seem to "attack" someone for theirs. I usually just feel sorry for them. Having to live everyday with a attitude like that must be terrible. Life is just to short to be miserable. I have learned alot from this forum and have high regards for those who take the time to share their knowledge. I would hope that in 20 or 30 years, or even longer, that folks are still using this forum, or something like it, to share their Case knowledge

 

[Anonymous-0]

Guys like mEL are careful only to post factual things here. The frustration comes when someone posts something that is fact and recognized as factual by others with similar knowlege of the subject at hand only to be disputed by someone who is not informed, discrediting a credible source. Yes everyone is entitled to an opinion and we have the freedom to express it however I personally do not want to mislead someone who asks for help on something they are attempting for the first time. I try to post things that I know to be true based on facts. I am proud of my abilities which are not as developed as others on here but I get fired up when someone discredits a good source of info with their own ideas. A few on here regularily post false statements, I'd like to mention names but won't. All forums on yt have lost valuable contributors do to the same issues and it is a loss to all.

 

[JDemaris]

I agree with all you said. For that reason, I suspect things could go much smoother during disagreements - that the actual facts in question get discussed and/or argued - instead of relying on personal opinions about the people behind the statements.

Sometimes a "newbie" with just a few year's experienced can actually be correct about something, and a guy with 80 years experience can be wrong.

I've tried not to confront anybody personally on any of these forums and try to stick to facts as I know them, along with reasons for believing so.

As I've alluded to earlier, to claim that one person has to be right based only on long experience, and another has to be wrong due to lack of experience - proves absolutely nothing.

I have noticed over the years, that in some of the most heated posting sessions on these forums - the flames are mostly fueled by people who don't seem to know enough to fairly interpret the facts at hand - and just seem to side with someone they favor overall.

Also, I want to clarify that none of what I'm writing here has anything specifically to do with mEL. I don't know him, haven't noticed anything he's posted that I strongly disagree with, etc.
I've been around this stuff a long time - certainly long enough to know that with some things, there is no ONE right or wrong.

 

[mEl]

Mike, I was going to refrain from posting any more on this forum and especially on this subject but your comments concerning your experiences with our dealership touched my heart, Thank you and your family for years of being our faithful customers. In a business climate that shows not particular loyaly you guys have been the exception and considering the extreme distance you have to go to get here makes it all the more gratifying. In response to J demaris' posts, I find his points well thought out and certainly reasonable, I dropped him a personal e mail and I hope that he responds with a phone number so we can talk in person. As he said very well, we neither one have a problem with each other. I do not think that Multigrade oils will destroy modern day engines, as I stated before, and if you go back and look I have always stated that oils and oring materials are vastly different than when my experiences that shaped my thinking occoured. I also am big on products designed and approved by the manufacturers and recommend dealer sold products the sole purpose is to discourage people from useing bargain basement products. I still think overall that experience is a very important ingredient, and that is not to disparage book knowledge in any manner, If you keep looking you will see the results of this discussion of past days, people are looking to bait me on, keep the ball rolling if you will, how should I respond. My only goal on here is to try to pass on some of what my years have given me, my greatest pleasure is to see someone say "hey mEl I got it going, thank you" Thank you all, mEl

 

[mEl]

Mike, I was going to refrain from posting any more on this forum and especially on this subject but your comments concerning your experiences with our dealership touched my heart, Thank you and your family for years of being our faithful customers. In a business climate that shows not particular loyaly you guys have been the exception and considering the extreme distance you have to go to get here makes it all the more gratifying. In response to J demaris' posts, I find his points well thought out and certainly reasonable, I dropped him a personal e mail and I hope that he responds with a phone number so we can talk in person. As he said very well, we neither one have a problem with each other. I do not think that Multigrade oils will destroy modern day engines, as I stated before, and if you go back and look I have always stated that oils and oring materials are vastly different than when my experiences that shaped my thinking occoured. I also am big on products designed and approved by the manufacturers and recommend dealer sold products the sole purpose is to discourage people from useing bargain basement products. I still think overall that experience is a very important ingredient, and that is not to disparage book knowledge in any manner, If you keep looking you will see the results of this discussion of past days, people are looking to bait me on, keep the ball rolling if you will, how should I respond. My only goal on here is to try to pass on some of what my years have given me, my greatest pleasure is to see someone say "hey mEl I got it going, thank you" Thank you all, mEl

 

[JDemaris]

John here (jdemaris). I didn't get your email, but this forum has been doing funny things lately. Be on here of years, but as of last week I stopped getting email notices of new posts. Maybe the email forwarding isn't working either?

Your slightly negative comment about "book knowledge" brings back a few, not so distant memories. At the last Deere dealership I worked at - we had an agricultural college nearby - a two-year degree program. One major was agricultural mechanics. We made an agreement with the college, and every year took one of their best scoring students and let him work in our shop for a few months. Many didn't last a week. Besides the hard physical work, and being greasy all the time, there was often the clash between the guys with hands-on experience, and the college guy who "knew better." I must admit though, that we were sometimes pretty awful and intentionally made life miserable for some to the college "trainees."
To go one step further - we, in the shop, often had to work with Deere Co. engineers that got sent to us when there was a problem that needed ironing out. When I first worked for Deere in the 60s, the Deere engineers were "hands-on" guys, many who had worked on farms and turned wrenches before becoming engineers. Great guys. But, come the late 80s, early 90s - what a change! Deere started sending us company engineers that were fresh out of school and didn't know an open-end wrench from an ice pick. They were worse to work with than the kids from the college.
I'm not saying book-learning is bad, but it CAN be bad for your mental health if not buffered by some real world training. I had the experience of getting run over by a tractor in 1991 and got a broken neck. While laid up a few years, I went to college. Got real "book smart" and almost got ruined by it. I'm not kidding. I'd sit there in a classroom and actually get convinced that something was different than I'd already seen with my own eyes - i.e. experience.
Long story short, I got degrees, thought I'd be one of those guys with a clean shirt and saying something smart - but it never happened. I relapsed back to what I always was - just older and slower.
But . . . to the converse, I worked with many an old mechanic that refused to learn anything new - and condemn others that did. These things can work both ways.

 

[mEl]

John, sent another e mail, if you wish write to [email protected] in case you did not receive again. tnx. mEl

 

[mshultz]

Mel,

I hope your wife is doing well - certainly more important things to worry about than this site. My post here was just an attempt to try to get some of these people to sit back & relax a bit - to put this thing here in perspective a little & realize that everyone on here has similar intentions of trying to help others. As was stated by someone else - ask 4 experienced people how to do something, and you'll probably get 4 answers - all of which are probably correct - just a different way of skinning the same cat so to speak.

For me personally, I know that if you quit posting on here I still have 4 other ways of getting ahold of you, and that you'll do everything you can to help us out - so it really doesn't matter to me that much. But I think it would be a big loss to others on here. For me, I usually read most of your posts just because I get a kick out of seeing how much detail you can remember about so much different stuff - some of it I'm assuming you probably haven't worked on on a regular basis in 20 years or better. Stuff like how many bolts hold a piece on, the size of the bolts, how much clearance should be between random pieces I didn't know existed, how much pressure on which hose & how to check it, etc. I keep telling Dad that before you retire, we need to have you down for about a week to go through all of our Case stuff to make sure it's in tip top shape because we're in for some big troubles once you're done doing this stuff!

 

[mEl]

Mike, you are much to kind, anyway , if I do choose to retire there's nothing saying I won't be available to you folks. But as I have told many others, If you want to see how much you'll be missed put your arm in a bucket of water and then pull it out and see how much of a hole it leaves. If I dropped over tomorrow, life would go on and the work would get done! sincerely mEl