640 refuses to start

[Blindhawg]

FORD 640 WON'T START.

WHATS BEEN DONE SO FAR:
Rebuilt engine; new sleeves, pistons, rings, crank bearings and seals. Also new valves, springs and guides. New spark plugs and distributor dust cover.
Starter wouldn't handle torque of "new" engine, had it rebuilt.

CURRENT CONDITIONS AND SETTINGS:
Good spark at all plugs.
Points clean and set to spec.
Firing order 1243, C/W.
Initial timing set with 4 deg mark at timing window mark.
Distributor housing set so that points are just about to open for #1 @ 4 degs BTDC.
#1 dist cap terminal is at 1:00 position
Battery fully charged
Power jet needle 1-1/8 turns out, idle needle 1 turn out.
Won't fire but will pop and backfire when distr. rotated CCW.
Even tried a shot of starter fluid.

It has run since rebuild, had to pull it off due to sick starter. Would only run when distributor was rotated 90 degs. counter clockwise from "correct" setting of 4 degs. BTDC and points just opening on cyl 1. It ran well though.

I suspect timing issue, but I feel sure that I did it right, of course that's one man's opinion!

Hope you can help, I've come too far to get stumped at this point.

Thanks

 

[Blindhawg]

Could be that I'm 180 out on my timing. After reading other similar posts, I realized that that timing mark has to go around twice. 1 and 4 pistons are at top dead center at the same time.
I bet if I were to rotate the crank a half turn and reset the distributor the ol'girl will fire up. As Forest Gump said, "I am not a smart man".
But I get by.

 

[JMOR]

Or just move all the plug wires two holes clockwise.
Scratch that! :roll:

 

[Blindhawg]

That'll work too.

Pardon my ignunce, but what does this mean?
Scratch that! :roll:

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 13:00:32 02/15/09) That'll work too.

Pardon my ignunce, but what does this mean?
Scratch that! :roll:

Well, it meant to disregard the "move two holes CW", because I decided that based on your statement of "180 out (dual flywheel marks & all) AND your comment about "1 & 4" being up at same time, that I now do not know whether you are thinking you are 180 or 360 off on crank .
My shift 2 hole would apply for a 1-4 problem (360), but not for a 180 (dual mark problem).....one hole for that one (cw or ccw).
Short cut:
Just feel the compression on #1 plug hole as you approach the flywheel mark, to be sure you are on correct mark.

 

[john_Bud]

Question: When you rebuilt the engine, you put the timing gears on dot to dot (right?). Then you put the distributor in with the timing gears still at that position and timed it to #1 cylinder - right?

If so, you are probably 180 degrees out of phase. I think that the engine is not at the #1 compression stroke when the dots are lined up. Take out the plugs and hand turn the engine over with your finger in the #1 piston hole and verify that you are in phase. Timing marks in the window when the #1 piston is trying to blow air out past your finger.

 

[Blindhawg]

Gears were definetly lined up dot to dot.

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 15:06:04 02/15/09) Gears were definetly lined up dot to dot.

However, if you did it as you said initially, then you did not install distributor when the crank/cam gears were dot to dot...rather when flywheel was at 4 deg in window, just as should be. The only question being, was it a 4 deg TDC or 4 deg BDC?
Again, feel the pressure at #1 just before 4 deg mark appears.

 

[Blindhawg]

Flywheel is marked 0 - 30. I assume that they are all before top dead center.

So when the the marker is on 4 degs. the gear dots are lined up?

Best I can figure is that I have it timed to fire when #4 is in the compression and #1 is in exhaust. Bass ackwards.

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 16:29:16 02/15/09) Flywheel is marked 0 - 30. I assume that they are all before top dead center.

So when the the marker is on 4 degs. the gear dots are lined up?

Best I can figure is that I have it timed to fire when #4 is in the compression and #1 is in exhaust. Bass ackwards.

All marks before TDC is good assumption.

If like most of these old Fords, & I believe it is, then NO, 4 BTDC is NOT when dots are lined up on timing gears (all pistons at 1/2 point of cylinder at the dots aligned). For working on ignition timing, FORGET the gear dots.....they were important in establishing cam to crankshaft timing...OK?

You say, "Best I can figure is that I have it timed to fire when #4 is in the compression and #1 is in exhaust."
If that is the case, then you are off by one crankshaft revolution OR stated differently, you are off by one-half a distributor revolution.

Just FYI, one set of flywheel marks will correspond to the firing of #2 & # 3 and the other set to #1 & #4.

 

[Dandy Dave]

Recheck the valve gap setting. Sometimes this changes after running for a short time and the valves will be too tight or two loose. Dandy Dave!