Case 530 CK parked for 10 years

[TapRackFire]

Please forgive my ignorance, but I don't understand how moving the engine backwards via rotating a wheel causes damage. Aren't the forces created on the wrist pins and everything else connected to the crank shaft when rotation occurs equal regardless of the clockwise or counter clockwise rotation?

 

[Jim.ME]

Please forgive my ignorance, but I don't understand how moving the engine backwards via rotating a wheel causes damage. Aren't the forces created on the wrist pins and everything else connected to the crank shaft when rotation occurs equal regardless of the clockwise or counter clockwise rotation?

rustred was saying that if you turned the engine backward and a piston was stuck you would pull it apart as it was only intended to have force pushing down on the top, not pulling down on the bottom. As you can see from other comments that is subject to debate. I have seen a John Deere engine do just as Dieseltech posted. The engine ran but the top of one piston did not move, you could see it setting there through the plug hole while the engine was running. It broke at the oil ring groove, the skirt stayed intact, guided the rod as the complete piston would, and the engine had not been stuck so turning the wrong way did not cause the break.

 

[TapRackFire]

rustred was saying that if you turned the engine backward and a piston was stuck you would pull it apart as it was only intended to have force pushing down on the top, not pulling down on the bottom. As you can see from other comments that is subject to debate. I have seen a John Deere engine do just as Dieseltech posted. The engine ran but the top of one piston did not move, you could see it setting there through the plug hole while the engine was running. It broke at the oil ring groove, the skirt stayed intact, guided the rod as the complete piston would, and the engine had not been stuck so turning the wrong way did not cause the break.

ok. that makes some sense to me.

 

[rustred]

rustred was saying that if you turned the engine backward and a piston was stuck you would pull it apart as it was only intended to have force pushing down on the top, not pulling down on the bottom. As you can see from other comments that is subject to debate. I have seen a John Deere engine do just as Dieseltech posted. The engine ran but the top of one piston did not move, you could see it setting there through the plug hole while the engine was running. It broke at the oil ring groove, the skirt stayed intact, guided the rod as the complete piston would, and the engine had not been stuck so turning the wrong way did not cause the break.

that is exactly what i am saying . and yes this was a running tractor from not to far from me. the guy bought it new also. i could have stuck the injectors back in and tryed to start it but decided against that incase the piston actually would have broke up and did more damage. and yes i put air to the cylinder and had it pressurized at tdc. thats how i came to the conclusion the piston is in 2 pieces and pulled apart at the oil ring holes. the top half is still stuck in the cylinder. once i get it apart i will definity let u guys know the outcome .

 

[used red MN]

that is exactly what i am saying . and yes this was a running tractor from not to far from me. the guy bought it new also. i could have stuck the injectors back in and tryed to start it but decided against that incase the piston actually would have broke up and did more damage. and yes i put air to the cylinder and had it pressurized at tdc. thats how i came to the conclusion the piston is in 2 pieces and pulled apart at the oil ring holes. the top half is still stuck in the cylinder. once i get it apart i will definity let u guys know the outcome .

I am from the next state to the west of Missouri, so when you tear it apart you will have to “show me”

 

[TapRackFire]

I am from the next state to the west of Missouri, so when you tear it apart you will have to “show me”

Good one. you in Kansas? I wish the the weather would cooperate. I'd be out there turning wrenches on this beast but its 13 degrees out there. When it warms up I hope to have an update.

 

[used red MN]

Good one. you in Kansas? I wish the the weather would cooperate. I'd be out there turning wrenches on this beast but its 13 degrees out there. When it warms up I hope to have an update.

No, the MN in my handle is correct. But KS is my born and raised state. My mom still lives on the farm west of Marysville. Last week about been colder there than here, unusual. Later in the week a few days are going to turn back to the normal colder here than there.

 

[rustred]

I am from the next state to the west of Missouri, so when you tear it apart you will have to “show me”

here's one better, come on down and give a hand and then i wont have to show you.

 

[TapRackFire]

No updates to share. the weather has been terrible in here in OK. Looks like it might be warmer temps the next few days. I did try to disconnect the plumbing to the hydraulic pump the other day. I think it is the high pressure side because it is all solid piping with 2 fittings that are screwed together. I could not get any of it loose. I tried heat and pb blaster at the fitting by close to the pump. I could get the fitting at the pump to turn about 1/32 both ways but no more. The other side of the pump must be the low pressure since it has hose clamps on some rubber hose fittings.

Hope to have more success with better temps this week

 

[TapRackFire]

My battle continues trying to free this diesel motor. Recently I was describing to a buddy who is a car mechanic my attempts to free the engine, by jacking up one wheel and turning the lifted wheel. As I've described above I've had no luck with this process. He said I needed both wheels off the ground to unseize the engine because the clutch was possibly froze to the flywheel and that is why I the starter won't turn the motor because the other wheel on the ground won't allow the motor to turn. So now I have lifted driver's side rear wheel of the ground and tried to use the starter to turn the motor with both wheels off the ground. This had zero luck. Still had the same click from the starter and can see the water pump pully try to turn with each click of the starter, but it never moves.

I started by lifting the passenger side wheel and the wheel would not turn at all, it would only click back and forth. Now with driver's side in the air along with the passenger side in the air, I can rotate the driver side rear wheel in both directions and with tranny in any gear or neutral. I can hear the things turning inside the tranny. The passenger side wheel still does not move when i turn the driver side wheel. I can see it try to spin the opposite direction of the free wheel, but it only moves about .25-.50 of an inch and stops. Should it have mattered which wheel was in the air? Does this mean the tranny is locked up?

 

[used red MN]

My battle continues trying to free this diesel motor. Recently I was describing to a buddy who is a car mechanic my attempts to free the engine, by jacking up one wheel and turning the lifted wheel. As I've described above I've had no luck with this process. He said I needed both wheels off the ground to unseize the engine because the clutch was possibly froze to the flywheel and that is why I the starter won't turn the motor because the other wheel on the ground won't allow the motor to turn. So now I have lifted driver's side rear wheel of the ground and tried to use the starter to turn the motor with both wheels off the ground. This had zero luck. Still had the same click from the starter and can see the water pump pully try to turn with each click of the starter, but it never moves.

I started by lifting the passenger side wheel and the wheel would not turn at all, it would only click back and forth. Now with driver's side in the air along with the passenger side in the air, I can rotate the driver side rear wheel in both directions and with tranny in any gear or neutral. I can hear the things turning inside the tranny. The passenger side wheel still does not move when i turn the driver side wheel. I can see it try to spin the opposite direction of the free wheel, but it only moves about .25-.50 of an inch and stops. Should it have mattered which wheel was in the air? Does this mean the tranny is locked up?

No, one wheel jacked up and turning free tells you that the transmission or drive train is NOT keeping the engine from turning. Have you moved the tractor? If so did that wheel turn that you say is not turning know? It could be the brakes are locked up or dragging so hard you just can’t physically overcome its resistance. The gears have no effect on the turning wheel because of what you suspected about the clutch needing hydraulic pressure to operate. Focusing on turning the engine backwards by some means is what I would suggest. Not sure how hard it is to remove the starter but pulling that off to pry on the flywheel starter teeth in a backwards direction would be an option if it does not come off to hard.

 

[TapRackFire]

No, one wheel jacked up and turning free tells you that the transmission or drive train is NOT keeping the engine from turning. Have you moved the tractor? If so did that wheel turn that you say is not turning know? It could be the brakes are locked up or dragging so hard you just can’t physically overcome its resistance. The gears have no effect on the turning wheel because of what you suspected about the clutch needing hydraulic pressure to operate. Focusing on turning the engine backwards by some means is what I would suggest. Not sure how hard it is to remove the starter but pulling that off to pry on the flywheel starter teeth in a backwards direction would be an option if it does not come off to hard.

Red,

I'm not sure if the wheels were turning prior to moving this tractor to my house. I had a rollback wrecker come and suck it up on the their bed and did not pay attention if the wheels turned. I think your right about the rear wheel being froze by the brake. I noticed the right brake pedal was not connected to the left pedal and the left pedal has the spring attached to it that allows the pedal(s) to stay up. With the right pedal not connected to the spring I think over the years of it sitting allowed the weight of the right pedal to apply some pressure to that right brake linkage. While laying under the tractor I could push the right pedal upward and the threaded linkage going back into the brake house did not move, it stayed out as if there was pressure applied to the linkage. I might have to remove that brake assembly to free it up.

When it comes to the engine, I removed the hydro pump, connecting hydro low pressure lines and the radiator yesterday so I could gain access to the crank shaft. I removed the adapter plate from the bottom pulley. This adapter plate allows the hydro pump to be connected via a splined shaft and splined coupler to the crank shaft and found there was a 1/2" square hole that allows for a 1/2" drive to be inserted into the bottom pully. With a 1/2" breaker bar and very long cheater pipe, we tried to turn that engine counter clockwise and clockwise and it would not budge. Even tried bumping the starter while applying clockwise pressure. Tried turning it counter clockwise till we twisted off the end of one of the 1/2" extensions.

My neighbor was giving me a hand and he has a mill. He took the splined adapter plate with him so he can mill another adapter plate we can bolt to the crankshaft, except it wont have the short splined shaft on it. His adapter will have solid round bar stock welded to it long enough to stick out past the grill (about 16" long"). We will bolt this back on and try again. Our thought was we were loosing some of our torque using the 1/2" extensions. I'll recoat the cylinders with PB blaster and let that soak in some more. Unless somebody has a better idea for a lubricant to pour into those cylinders.

 

[used red MN]

Have you looked in the bores with your scope? What do you see? Pictures?

 

[TapRackFire]

Have you looked in the bores with your scope? What do you see? Pictures?

 

[TapRackFire]

i tried to use my bore scope and I could not see much of anything. I might need a different scope. This one only has video out of the end. I can see at 90 degrees. Mine is a harbor freight. Not sure if they sell a different camera I could attach.

 

[used red MN]

Anything that looked like a lot of rust?

 

[560Dennis]

How much oil did you put in there? Could it be hydro locked .

 

[rustred]

i would just pull the head,.. its 1 1/2 hr job. then the proof is in the pudding. you been at this for over 2 weeks and still in the same spot. and it would have been running by now.

 

[TapRackFire]

Anything that looked like a lot of rust?

Sorry red, i was not very clear on camera. I could see much of anything and I can not see 90 degrees. All i could see was dark and shiny spots. Nothing definitive.

 

[TapRackFire]

How much oil did you put in there? Could it be hydro locked .