Gifted JD 2350 over my head, electrical issues

[danc1948]

once again, thank you for your help, touching the battery cable post and the small S terminal will make the starter jump. I appreciate you sending me to section 20 page 2 as I somehow another missed turn that starter switch to the left for 10 seconds, and then another turn to the left. just a single click whenever I toggle the switch… no need for pictures as page 2 section 20 illustrates perfectly what I have, key ignition switch, and the starting switch, which somehow another I have been calling neutral starting switch.. can’t say for sure about the manifold wire. I don’t see anything from looking under the hood. I mean to take the hood off but the grommet that goes around the fuel intake won’t let go and I ran out of time ..Only other thing I accomplished was fishing the O-ring seal that goes in the bushing slot for the load control shaft.. i’m no expert, but that seal was trash I felt no grooves in the bushing.. thanks Jim any insights are always welcome

 

[Jim.ME]

once again, thank you for your help, touching the battery cable post and the small S terminal will make the starter jump. I appreciate you sending me to section 20 page 2 as I somehow another missed turn that starter switch to the left for 10 seconds, and then another turn to the left. just a single click whenever I toggle the switch… no need for pictures as page 2 section 20 illustrates perfectly what I have, key ignition switch, and the starting switch, which somehow another I have been calling neutral starting switch.. can’t say for sure about the manifold wire. I don’t see anything from looking under the hood. I mean to take the hood off but the grommet that goes around the fuel intake won’t let go and I ran out of time ..Only other thing I accomplished was fishing the O-ring seal that goes in the bushing slot for the load control shaft.. i’m no expert, but that seal was trash I felt no grooves in the bushing.. thanks Jim any insights are always welcome

Your start switch works two ways to accommodate different weather conditions. If the engine is cold and you want to use the Thermostart starting aid, you turn the ignition key to on and then turn the start switch to the left one position and hold for 10-15 seconds, after that you turn it further left to engage the starter. When it starts you let it back to the first left position until it runs smooth, then release it. If the engine is not cold, you can just turn the start switch to the right, bypassing the Thermostart system, releasing it when the engine starts. You need to find out if the wire is in place to the glow plug that ignites the fuel in the Thermostart system. Also, the little fuel tank and steel lines need to be there. If the wiring, glow plug, tank and lines are not in place, there is no sense in turning the start switch to the left.

If the starter cranks the engine over when you put power from the battery terminal to the S terminal it is a problem in the starting circuit which could be a bad switch or a bad or misplaced wire. Unhook the wire from the starter S terminal and check the voltage at the wire terminal, when you turn the start switch to the right. If you have a headlight bulb around hook a wire to ground from one bulb terminal and hook the start wire to the other and see if it lights the bulb good and bright when you turn the switch to start. A headlight bulb is more load than a test light and if there is a problem in the wiring it may show with a dim light or no light. Make sure the transmission range gear box lever is in neutral and the PTO lever is disengaged. Your neutral switches (both the same part number) monitor those items. The transmission neutral switch is under the metal cover that goes around the shift levers, on the top of the transmission. I am not sure on the location of the PTO neutral switch, but I believe it will be under the left footboard a few inches forward of the pivot shaft of the PTO lever. You can use a jumper wire with alligator clips on it to bypass one (by unplugging/unhooking the wires from the switch then connecting the wires together. Then see if the starter will crank. If it cranks when that one is bypassed either the switch is bad or out of adjustment (there are aluminum shims for adjustment. After that check the other one the same way. See how those things check out.

 

[danc1948]

Great homework assignment. Thank you. There is a small tank roughly 6 inch diameter by 12 inches long almost to the hood. very close to the absolutely incredibly filthy oil cooler , there are steel tubes coming off of it which transfer to hose I don’t know if it’s the tank you refer to,I am familiar with glow plugs, but I am used to seeing them on or at the injectors, I see nothing like that on this tractor, nor any wiring that would indicate there was one. There is a wire I believe the sensor wire for the air filter that may be the wire you referred to in another post as the intake manifold, there is a wire hanging from wrapped harness wire that goes to the alternator a terminal type post fitting. I can’t tell as yet where it might go. also another loose wire under the dash more to the light switch side of the tractor.. yes, there are two wires coming off the PTO safety switch under the floorboard. I plan to jump them. They are hard to get to so I may trim a little insulation off them above the floorboard so I can put a jumper on.. there are quite a few icons that are supposed to light up when the key ignition switch is turned on, but I only get four I don’t know what bearing that may or may not have. Will buy a bulb and do the test you prescribe ,just to make sure, ground one terminal. The other probe wire goes to the S terminal wire. not the main battery wire.? some things happening through the weekend that may delay the process a bit. I have a buddy coming Tuesday or Wednesday next week to help out. as well. I really appreciate you hanging in there with me. Thanks.

 

[Jim.ME]

Great homework assignment. Thank you. There is a small tank roughly 6 inch diameter by 12 inches long almost to the hood. very close to the absolutely incredibly filthy oil cooler , there are steel tubes coming off of it which transfer to hose I don’t know if it’s the tank you refer to,I am familiar with glow plugs, but I am used to seeing them on or at the injectors, I see nothing like that on this tractor, nor any wiring that would indicate there was one. There is a wire I believe the sensor wire for the air filter that may be the wire you referred to in another post as the intake manifold, there is a wire hanging from wrapped harness wire that goes to the alternator a terminal type post fitting. I can’t tell as yet where it might go. also another loose wire under the dash more to the light switch side of the tractor.. yes, there are two wires coming off the PTO safety switch under the floorboard. I plan to jump them. They are hard to get to so I may trim a little insulation off them above the floorboard so I can put a jumper on.. there are quite a few icons that are supposed to light up when the key ignition switch is turned on, but I only get four I don’t know what bearing that may or may not have. Will buy a bulb and do the test you prescribe ,just to make sure, ground one terminal. The other probe wire goes to the S terminal wire. not the main battery wire.? some things happening through the weekend that may delay the process a bit. I have a buddy coming Tuesday or Wednesday next week to help out. as well. I really appreciate you hanging in there with me. Thanks.

Yes, it you use a headlight bulb to check power in the start wire one terminal of the bulb goes to ground and the start wire hooks to the second terminal. The fact that the starter cranks the engine when you jump between the battery post and S terminal of the solenoid indicates it has ok battery power to the starter. Not engaging the starter when the start switch is turned to start says power is not getting from the start switch to the solenoid's start terminal for some reason.

When you mention a 6" by 12" tank, I think you are looking at the hydraulic oil reserve reservoir mounted above the hydraulic pump. The Thermostat tank would be smaller, have small steel lines (about 1/4"), and be tie into the fuel system, as it burns diesel to heat the manifold. The glow plug for that system should be in the manifold at the location I circled in this clip I took from picture I found on the web. The second picture is of the "glow plug", which is actually called a burner in the parts catalog, as the heat coil is inside the shield and fuel to burn is feed in from the fitting where the red cap is.

 

[danc1948]

OK to all, a friend came over and helped me get the hood off , I posted a couple of pictures you may see something of value. I don’t believe it has the cold weather start capability, not much of an necessity in my area.. after I got the hood off I realized that tank was indeed the oil reservoir.. going to town in a while will purchase a headlight and see what I can find out, one other item, the 20 amp circuit breaker on the left-hand side of the tractor where the battery wires go to is arcing out a bit when I turn the starter switch just noticed this this morning I think maybe just because of the nuts that hold on the wires is loose , I tried to take it off a while back because it looked very eroded but the nuts rounded off, but because I put the new ignitions switch on and got console lights I figured it was good, I had purchased another one few weeks back. I’ll put that on and see if that helps. Thanks for the photo. I hope the photos I’m sending come out better,when I blow this up it’s very blurry. usually on iPad may have to try my computer.

 

[Jim.ME]

OK to all, a friend came over and helped me get the hood off , I posted a couple of pictures you may see something of value. I don’t believe it has the cold weather start capability, not much of an necessity in my area.. after I got the hood off I realized that tank was indeed the oil reservoir.. going to town in a while will purchase a headlight and see what I can find out, one other item, the 20 amp circuit breaker on the left-hand side of the tractor where the battery wires go to is arcing out a bit when I turn the starter switch just noticed this this morning I think maybe just because of the nuts that hold on the wires is loose , I tried to take it off a while back because it looked very eroded but the nuts rounded off, but because I put the new ignitions switch on and got console lights I figured it was good, I had purchased another one few weeks back. I’ll put that on and see if that helps. Thanks for the photo. I hope the photos I’m sending come out better,when I blow this up it’s very blurry. usually on iPad may have to try my computer.

Definitely replace the arcing circuit breaker.

You have the Thermostart. See the picture I marked up.

 

[Jim.ME]

Definitely replace the arcing circuit breaker.

You have the Thermostart. See the picture I marked up.View attachment 2725

Also even if the burner (glow plug) has power it may not work as the little tank might not have any diesel in it. That tank gets filled with fuel via the return fuel line from the injection nozzles. When the Thermostart tank is full, the excess fuel then returns to the fuel tank. So, where the tractor has not been running much the Thermostart fuel tank currently may be out of fuel. If the engine is tight and electrical is up to snuff, I would expect it to start without the Thermostart, at least most of the time in Central Florida.

 

[danc1948]

right you are! thanks as usual, still learning something new every day, going to take it off now… it might possibly be the problem, but until I fix the seals on the load control shaft and put new hydraulic fluid in the transmission case, I assume it would not be a wise idea to even start it as it might burn out the hydraulic pump. Headed to the barn.

 

[Jim.ME]

right you are! thanks as usual, still learning something new every day, going to take it off now… it might possibly be the problem, but until I fix the seals on the load control shaft and put new hydraulic fluid in the transmission case, I assume it would not be a wise idea to even start it as it might burn out the hydraulic pump. Headed to the barn.

Right get the oil back in before starting.

It will not hurt to leave the Thermostart there for now, just don't turn the start switch to the left.

 

[Jim.ME]

Right get the oil back in before starting.

It will not hurt to leave the Thermostart there for now, just don't turn the start switch to the left.

If you are blowing the thumbnail pictures up by using the finger spread on the screen, try tapping on the picture instead. That should open it in a larger size and be clear. Works that way on my computer and tablet.

 

[danc1948]

Ok on the picture will try that next time. understand thermostat switch…more progress I put the new circuit breaker on hold my breath turn the key nothing happened. I tried a couple more times and then all of a sudden it fired. Good strong starter sound. i let the switch go because I don’t want it to start as I managed to break the original throttle kill cable after spending a couple days freeing it up,when I went to put it back on the wire broke. didn’t want to risk the hydraulic system for the time it would take to walk around the tractor and do it manually. I turned the switch a couple more times nothing happened , then it fired once again I let go and tried a couple more times and nothing happened. I quit for the day… too much excitement! I am fairly certain I wire wheeled the starter cable terminal, but I may not have wire wheeled the S terminal. Will try that. I priced a JD throttle kill cable and it was $89. I got one from yesterday‘s Tractor for 20 something but it’s way too long I don’t know if there’s a way to adjust them and make them shorter or not and I don’t want to spend $89 for nothing because John Deere cable may be too long as well. you may have a suggestion.. was not able to get a headlight bulb today, will likely be Monday before I can do that .. thanks, Jim

 

[Jim.ME]

Ok on the picture will try that next time. understand thermostat switch…more progress I put the new circuit breaker on hold my breath turn the key nothing happened. I tried a couple more times and then all of a sudden it fired. Good strong starter sound. i let the switch go because I don’t want it to start as I managed to break the original throttle kill cable after spending a couple days freeing it up,when I went to put it back on the wire broke. didn’t want to risk the hydraulic system for the time it would take to walk around the tractor and do it manually. I turned the switch a couple more times nothing happened , then it fired once again I let go and tried a couple more times and nothing happened. I quit for the day… too much excitement! I am fairly certain I wire wheeled the starter cable terminal, but I may not have wire wheeled the S terminal. Will try that. I priced a JD throttle kill cable and it was $89. I got one from yesterday‘s Tractor for 20 something but it’s way too long I don’t know if there’s a way to adjust them and make them shorter or not and I don’t want to spend $89 for nothing because John Deere cable may be too long as well. you may have a suggestion.. was not able to get a headlight bulb today, will likely be Monday before I can do that .. thanks, Jim

You can shorten most pull cables by pulling the knob/inner cable out of the jacket, generally 1 foot is enough. With the cable mounted in the dash, figure out the length you want the jacket to be, cut it off on the open cable end at that length, and mount the end of the outer jacket in its holder. Slide the inner cable back in. Now figure out where to cut the inner cable so it reaches the arm when the arm is fully away from the jacket end. I plan to leave about 1/2" extra, as long as there is room, for adjustment if needed. I also leave the knob about 1/8" away from the jacket when the knob is pushed in, with the arm is fully forward and the cable secured in the fitting on the arm. That 1/8" is a way to tell the shut off is in the fully on position (and on a gas engine it confirms the choke is fully open). If the knob is tight on the cable jacket when pushed in, you can't be sure.

Cranking from the start switch at times then at times not cranking, could be several things as we have discussed. Since you have replaced the ignition and the start switches it is not likely the problem is one of those switches. It could be a bad wire, bad or misadjusted neutral switch, or it could be the solenoid is weak and drawing more than the system provides. Back the starter mount bolts off a bit and retighten them to improve grounding through them. If the battery ground cable hooks to a sheet metal component now extend it to the engine block, under a starter mount bolt is a good place. one way you can do that is with a cable terminated under the existing ground cable to extend it to the block without a completely new cable back to the battery. One good 12-volt battery should start your 2350 in Florida, I have a Group 31 (about 1000 CCA) in my 2030. See how things check out, it might be good to add a relay to operate the solenoid. If needed, I can fill you in on what to get and how to wire it. I'm trying to think of what might work to save you buying a headlight bulb. You want one like the old 6014, 7" round ones like older trucks and cars used. Know anyone with an old truck setting out back? If you get a 6014 here is here is a picture of the terminals to. Ground goes to ground. You can put power to either the low and high beam terminal. I would use the high beam terminal.

 

[used red MN]

You need to check with a test light or meter if every time you turn the key to the start position that it is sending power to the small terminal on the starter solenoid. If the wire is not powered every time the problem is somewhere in the start circuit or associated safety switches. If it powers every time but the starter does not react the problem is on the solenoid or the starter.
Post a picture of the kill cable, in particular the end that connects to the pump. If it is just a normal “choke style” cable it can easily be cut to length with a side cutter pliers. Install it and route it as needed. Position it in its anchoring location and measure it about a foot past it. Cut of the cable at that point. Pull the inner wire out about 2 ft. Position the outer housing into its holder on the pump and mark it or hold your thumb at the spot, cut the housing to that length. Push the inner push pull back in run it through its stop mount on the shut off lever. Place the knob about a 1/4 inch from pushed in. With the stop lever at the most forward position tighten the housing and the inner wire locks down. Cut off the extra wire.

Edit: Jim was typing, I was typing and playing with my grandson off and on. He posted first sorry if there is duplication.

 

[Jim.ME]

You need to check with a test light or meter if every time you turn the key to the start position that it is sending power to the small terminal on the starter solenoid. If the wire is not powered every time the problem is somewhere in the start circuit or associated safety switches. If it powers every time but the starter does not react the problem is on the solenoid or the starter.
Post a picture of the kill cable, in particular the end that connects to the pump. If it is just a normal “choke style” cable it can easily be cut to length with a side cutter pliers. Install it and route it as needed. Position it in its anchoring location and measure it about a foot past it. Cut of the cable at that point. Pull the inner wire out about 2 ft. Position the outer housing into its holder on the pump and mark it or hold your thumb at the spot, cut the housing to that length. Push the inner push pull back in run it through its stop mount on the shut off lever. Place the knob about a 1/4 inch from pushed in. With the stop lever at the most forward position tighten the housing and the inner wire locks down. Cut off the extra wire.

Edit: Jim was typing, I was typing and playing with my grandson off and on. He posted first sorry if there is duplication.

The point of using a headlight bulb is that it is more load than a test meter or test light and can give indication of a poorly conducting circuit, which may not show up with the small load imparted by a test meter or test light.

 

[used red MN]

The point of using a headlight bulb is that it is more load than a test meter or test light and can give indication of a poorly conducting circuit, which may not show up with the small load imparted by a test meter or test light.

Jim. I did that thing that I HATE when others do not do it. I did not read and comprehend all the previous posts. I totally agree with your 6:28pm post on 1/18/24 where the headlight bulb is mentioned. Sorry, if you felt I was minimizing the reasoning behind your processes. Luckily and I pray hopefully the majority of my post don’t come in like everybody else came out weeds and any previous posts are pretended to have never happened.

 

[Jim.ME]

Jim. I did that thing that I HATE when others do not do it. I did not read and comprehend all the previous posts. I totally agree with your 6:28pm post on 1/18/24 where the headlight bulb is mentioned. Sorry, if you felt I was minimizing the reasoning behind your processes. Luckily and I pray hopefully the majority of my post don’t come in like everybody else came out weeds and any previous posts are pretended to have never happened.

I have no issue with your post, I have done the same and missed things, or misinterpreted them, and likely will again in the future. I just wanted to clarify why I was recommending the headlight bulb. danc1948 is dealing with a lot of new ground here and he is working on what I would consider a less than simple wiring arrangement. I think he is getting closer to being able to start it with the switches, then we can fine tune from there if he wants.

 

[danc1948]

Got your post. Thank you so much as usual.. a little too tired to wrap my head around everything, especially the cable ,I was hoping I could just withdraw the wire and stick a new piece in it though I knew that was overly simple. At any rate it will be a couple of days before I can do anything else, then will see what we can do .once again thanks

 

[Jim.ME]

Look it over when you are ready and let me know if you have questions. You made some progress on it this week.

 

[sandcastle1]

They are a nice little machine, I have had mine for about 12 years. The ignition switch gave me trouble when I got it and I replaced it. The fast beeping only happens on mine when you try starting in gear with the parking brake set. I park it inside not in gear no parking brake set. According to the John Deere build sheet I am the second owner. The first owner being a school district that used it for mowing and snow removal.

 

[danc1948]

Thanks for all the helpful comments, have not heard the the beeping sound again here’s hoping I never do! had some success this weekend. I gave somebody an old John Deere 2010. It had engine issues that I could not deal with.. replaced the seals on the load control shaft. Plan on replacing hydraulic filter today and filling with hydraulic fluid.. I did notice some slight wear on the shaft on one side I can live with a small leak and replace shaft later if needed.. my bad, I unintentionally inferred that I had replaced the starter switch. I had bought one but once again, my electrical ignorance bushwhacked me..I thought because the solenoid was clicking that I didn’t need to replaceit right now. also, one of the two piggyback wires that were moved from the ground to the ignition on the key switch. The smaller of the two , I think 14 gauge is hanging by an hanging by a thread and needs and new terminal. it’s a strange terminal to me ,there’s like a lip that goes down into the other terminal. I don’t know if that’s a standard thing or not but I will find out. Here’s a photo of my broken throttle kill cable. Every time I look at the route under the battery box through a small hole that I can’t reach I wonder how I’m going to snake a cable through it, knowing of course sometimes it’s not as bad as it looks. thanks again will let you know how it’s going.,