Is this engine ready for rings?

[farmalldave]

Hello again I have the head off the farmall bn. The tractor has always had steam come from the vent on the valve cover. I removed the head and noticed antifreeze toward the back with milky oil mixed. I cleaned the top of the block a little and the cylinder walls. I turned the engine over with the crank and noticed as the piston would rise to the top it would push a line of milky oil to the top of wall and leave it. It continues to bring up small line of oil each time. I feel like it may need new rings am I right or wrong. Thanks. I also noticed the head was easy to remove after taking the nuts off. I usually have a time getting the heads off.

 

[old]

Hello again I have the head off the farmall bn. The tractor has always had steam come from the vent on the valve cover. I removed the head and noticed antifreeze toward the back with milky oil mixed. I cleaned the top of the block a little and the cylinder walls. I turned the engine over with the crank and noticed as the piston would rise to the top it would push a line of milky oil to the top of wall and leave it. It continues to bring up small line of oil each time. I feel like it may need new rings am I right or wrong. Thanks. I also noticed the head was easy to remove after taking the nuts off. I usually have a time getting the heads off.

That os a wet sleeve engine so good chance one or more sleeve seals are going bad causing that

 

[John Deere D]

Hello again I have the head off the farmall bn. The tractor has always had steam come from the vent on the valve cover. I removed the head and noticed antifreeze toward the back with milky oil mixed. I cleaned the top of the block a little and the cylinder walls. I turned the engine over with the crank and noticed as the piston would rise to the top it would push a line of milky oil to the top of wall and leave it. It continues to bring up small line of oil each time. I feel like it may need new rings am I right or wrong. Thanks. I also noticed the head was easy to remove after taking the nuts off. I usually have a time getting the heads off.

Welllllllll,seeing you have head removed....remove the engine oil pan.......fill engine block (cooling passages with water) check floor after 24 hours...any signs of water leaking into crankcase?

 

[farmalldave]

Welllllllll,seeing you have head removed....remove the engine oil pan.......fill engine block (cooling passages with water) check floor after 24 hours...any signs of water leaking into crankcase?

Yes I changed the oil and noticed the milky look and after couple weeks of running it was doing same thing oil Carmel color.

 

[rustred]

Hello again I have the head off the farmall bn. The tractor has always had steam come from the vent on the valve cover. I removed the head and noticed antifreeze toward the back with milky oil mixed. I cleaned the top of the block a little and the cylinder walls. I turned the engine over with the crank and noticed as the piston would rise to the top it would push a line of milky oil to the top of wall and leave it. It continues to bring up small line of oil each time. I feel like it may need new rings am I right or wrong. Thanks. I also noticed the head was easy to remove after taking the nuts off. I usually have a time getting the heads off.

It looks well worn to me. So keep going. Pull pistons and check the ring wear. Once head is off pulling pistons is not a big deal for at least a hone and ring job. But anyhow to cure the coolant leak u need to remove the sleeves and check the o ring grooves for being corroded and if good reuse them with new o rings. A bit of sleeve wear on them old engines don’t matter. This means keep digging into it.

 

[farmalldave]

It looks well worn to me. So keep going. Pull pistons and check the ring wear. Once head is off pulling pistons is not a big deal for at least a hone and ring job. But anyhow to cure the coolant leak u need to remove the sleeves and check the o ring grooves for being corroded and if good reuse them with new o rings. A bit of sleeve wear on them old engines don’t matter. This means keep digging into it.

Ok I will drop the pan and pull pistons tomorrow. I have never removed or installed a sleeve wet or dry. I'm a green horn. How do you remove the sleeves?

 

[Janicholson]

Ok I will drop the pan and pull pistons tomorrow. I have never removed or installed a sleeve wet or dry. I'm a green horn. How do you remove the sleeves?

The sleeves are held in by the head. and in this case by time. They can be removed from the bottom, pushing up. The pistons need to be kept i numeric order. front to back. The nuts on the rod caps need to be kept with the same rod bolt. The rod numbers are on the cap and upper rod and must be on the same side of the crank as when removed. The bearings are "inserts" in the big end of the rod. once separated, pushing up on the under side of the piston with a hardwood stick, or the surface of the rod now exposed. they might be tough to get started hammering on the stick is allowed. A service manual is absolutely needed. This site has the parts. Jim

 

[farmalldave]

The sleeves are held in by the head. and in this case by time. They can be removed from the bottom, pushing up. The pistons need to be kept i numeric order. front to back. The nuts on the rod caps need to be kept with the same rod bolt. The rod numbers are on the cap and upper rod and must be on the same side of the crank as when removed. The bearings are "inserts" in the big end of the rod. once separated, pushing up on the under side of the piston with a hardwood stick, or the surface of the rod now exposed. they might be tough to get started hammering on the stick is allowed. A service manual is absolutely needed. This site has the parts. Jim

Thanks for your response. I'll try it tomorrow. Wish me luck .

 

[rustred]

Once u have the rod caps off remove then brg from the connecting rod then use a ball peen hammer handle and just push the pistons out. That’s been my way since Christ was a cowboy. Then the sleeves can be pulled out with a sleeve puller which u can make. Or if lucky pushed out with a hyd. Jack and a round 1/2 inch plate against the bottom and a round piece of wood or whatever works. Be careful to protect the crank also that’s why wood is the best choice. Then the fun starts when u see how bad the o ring grooves and mating surfaces are corroded. I would also mark each sleeve position to make sure it gets put back in exactly as it was in before. Sleeves don’t wear evenly. Always more wear at the top, and the major thrust side has the most wear due the piston being pushed against that side when the plug fires. Take pictures and pay attention to all rod numbers being kept in order. This info is if the plan is to reuse the sleeves with a hone job. It also looked like this engine used some oil.

 

[Fixingfarmer]

Since the head is off you will want to get this checked by a machinist as well for any cracks. Liners and o-rings strong possibility but don't rule out that head or the head gasket as your source of water id get it checked out. The looseness of the studs could have caused the water problem as well my super c had a similar problem when I bought it and a head gasket was all it took. I didn't have the money at the time to send the head anywhere then I got pretty lucky but especially if they were loose that's where id start water wise.

It also looks like the pistons in that picture are quite tired as suggested by rustred and there's no visible cross hatching left on the liners so its probably time for the whole works. pistons liners o rings head gasket and depending what the machinist says...so first step is go check for cracks if a head is needed or if major repair of head is needed and finding an engine might be more cost effective.

 

[farmalldave]

Since the head is off you will want to get this checked by a machinist as well for any cracks. Liners and o-rings strong possibility but don't rule out that head or the head gasket as your source of water id get it checked out. The looseness of the studs could have caused the water problem as well my super c had a similar problem when I bought it and a head gasket was all it took. I didn't have the money at the time to send the head anywhere then I got pretty lucky but especially if they were loose that's where id start water wise.

It also looks like the pistons in that picture are quite tired as suggested by rustred and there's no visible cross hatching left on the liners so its probably time for the whole works. pistons liners o rings head gasket and depending what the machinist says...so first step is go check for cracks if a head is needed or if major repair of head is needed and finding an engine might be more cost effective.

I have a good machinist that can inspect the head I'll drop that off to him. Then start removing rods pistons and then sleeves.

 

[farmalldave]

I have a good machinist that can inspect the head I'll drop that off to him. Then start removing rods pistons and then sleeves.

Also when I turned the engine to bring to piston close to the top I was able to move the piston a little back and fourth with my hand. Prob another sign of the engine needs the works.

 

[old]

Also when I turned the engine to bring to piston close to the top I was able to move the piston a little back and fourth with my hand. Prob another sign of the engine needs the works.

On a wet sleeve engine the correct way to rebuild the engine is to put in new sleeves etc. That way for the most part you have a new engine

 

[560Dennis]

Interesting ,let’s us know what you find after it’s apart .

 

[kshansen]

Not knowing your plans for this tractor hard to say which way to go.

If this is just going to run a few hours a year at some tractor shows then removing the liners and replacing the o'rings along with rings on the pistons might be fine.

However if like my BN that is used to mow around 8 acres of lawn all summer plus hauling firewood for the winter I would go much deeper. New piston/liner kits, head gone through by the machine shop and new rod bearings as a minimum.

Then again back around 34 years ago I went all out on my BN, striped it down to bare castings and replaced all bearings, seals and gaskets, large bore pistons and liners, ground crank and line bored block, converted to 12 volt alternator. Still going strong today with not much work needed since then, worst being leaking gas tank and radiator but have them fixed for now.

 

[John Deere D]

Hello again I have the head off the farmall bn. The tractor has always had steam come from the vent on the valve cover. I removed the head and noticed antifreeze toward the back with milky oil mixed. I cleaned the top of the block a little and the cylinder walls. I turned the engine over with the crank and noticed as the piston would rise to the top it would push a line of milky oil to the top of wall and leave it. It continues to bring up small line of oil each time. I feel like it may need new rings am I right or wrong. Thanks. I also noticed the head was easy to remove after taking the nuts off. I usually have a time getting the heads off.

Accurate measurements are required,so as proper components can be purchased.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

How was your oil pressure? If it held good oil pressure you don't need to worry about rod and main bearings, at least not for now.

There are all different levels you can take this job to. Bare minimum would be to replace the o-rings in the sleeves and put new rings on the pistons. Next level would be new sleeves and pistons. Some will want to tell you the engine has to be sent to a machine shop to be pulled completely apart for a full work-over no matter what.

 

[Janicholson]

Watch some videos this PM and be happy. Jim

 

[kshansen]

How was your oil pressure? If it held good oil pressure you don't need to worry about rod and main bearings, at least not for now.

There are all different levels you can take this job to. Bare minimum would be to replace the o-rings in the sleeves and put new rings on the pistons. Next level would be new sleeves and pistons. Some will want to tell you the engine has to be sent to a machine shop to be pulled completely apart for a full work-over no matter what.

That is the main reason for the second sentence asking what the use of the tractor will be.

 

[farmalldave]

Ok got the pistons out and I'm not sure what to look for on the pistons to see if they would be ok to reuse. I did notice the exhaust ring on one of the pistons was broke when I pulled it out the top. The sleeves are very smooth. No cracks or lines that I can feel. The tractor will be used for parades and maybe pulling the manure spreader and JD 290 planter around. Should I go all the way new sleeves and pistons or just hone the sleeves and put new rings on the pistons. I want to do it once and be happy.