Locating underground PVC sewer pipe

[Charles in Aus.]

I'm going to start building another bedroom and workshop attached to our home . An ensuite bathroom is a requirement so I need to locate the existing sewer to be able to connect to it .
I have a sewer plan from the local authority but it's as vague as , I might as well throw a rock over my shoulder and dig where it falls The pipes run at about four to six feet deep here so I don't really want to dig up the whole yard looking for it . By the way this will be digging without machines , access is tight at home unlike at the farm .
I know I can pay someone to find it for me but down here such services are astronomical in cost , a rough unseen quote was for a minimum of AUS $1800. For that much I can buy all the framing timber for the whole job !

I know its asking a lot but I wondered if anyone has an off the wall , lateral solution to this , it seems to me that if anyone has a solution to finding it they will be part of this forum

 

[showcrop]

Well, you should know where your tank is and be able to just dig up the inlet opening to it and see what direction the pipe is coming into it from. Knowing that and where it exits the house should tell you very close to where it runs.

 

[coshoo]

Talk to local well drillers about people who could witch it for you. Too bad my daughter is not closer- she could find it in about 30 seconds.

 

[Stan in Oly, WA]

Charles; Is your house on a slab foundation so that you have no way to tell what direction the sewer pipe runs? Or is there a crawl space or a basement so that the pipe goes straight down and disappears into the earth or through the concrete? That must be the case because if you knew where it went through or under the foundation you'd begin digging at that point and just follow it from there. Is there any way you could use sound to help you locate it? Take the toilet off the floor so you have access to the beginning of the sewer pipe, and beat against it or make some other distinct noise in it while someone else uses a mechanic's stethoscope (or a medical one if you have access to one) to listen to likely locations on the ground along the perimeter of the foundation. There's also a device you can rent which has an attachment which you connect to an electrical cable that sends a signal through it so that you can use the meter that comes with it to locate the cable. Maybe you could push an electrical cable down the sever pipe (from the bathroom, after removing the toilet) and use that device to locate it outside the house.

Stan

 

[Mutt and Jeff]

That seems like an astronomical price.

get a real quote.

rent a snake
let it flop around in the pipe and listen to the ground

 

[Fawteen]

I don't know what to think about witching. People who I trust to be straight with me swear it works, but I've never seen it.

The one time I saw it in action, homeowner wanted me to dig up an old well head casing so he could drop a pump in it and use it to water his garden. He witched 4 different locations and I hit PVC at every one of them. Never did find the well.

 

[MarkB_MI]

Is the line connected to the city sewer or to a septic tank? If you're on a septic system, you should be able to locate the tank and get a pretty good idea of the sewer line location based on the locations of the tank and house. If you're on a city sewer, I'd think the sewer department could provide you with an accurate location of the connection to their line.

Have you checked with local tool rental places to see if they have any pipe locating equipment? It might be worth a fairly long drive if you can rent the equipment you need.

You mentioned you'll be hand-digging. Surely there's room to get a mini-excavator in where you need to dig; some (like the Toro Dingo) aren't much bigger than a riding mower. That's another thing you should be able to rent.

 

[MarkB_MI]

> Too bad my daughter is not closer- she could find it in about 30 seconds.

I can do better than that; I can witch that sewer line from my desk.

OK, I'm looking...I think I have the location now, just a little bit longer and YES, I FOUND IT! It's in the Southern Hemisphere.

 

[grandpa Love]

Get 2 wire coat hangers. Cut em
about 12-14 inches long. Usually
the bottom and one side. Bend them
like an "L" . Hold loosely in each
hand. Sticks will cross when you
walk over the pipe. It will also
find roots and big rocks. So you
need to make multiple trips to
determine if you are in fact on
the pipe.

 

[Dusty MI]

I do wire witching. Don't know why/how it works but it does.
Just bend two wires in an "L" shape, hold the short legs vertical and loosely, one in each hand, with the long ends on top and parallel, pointing straight forward. Then walk slowly over the area, and the wires will cross where ever the pipe is.
Like I said, I don't know why it works.
I've handed the wires to people that had never done this before, and their jaw drops when the wires cross, indicating that there is something under ground.
I'd be glad to come and show you how to do it. The only fee would be the cost of getting there.

Have always wanted to visit Australia.
Dusty

 

[Russ from MN]

If it has water in it my wife could find it! Find a local dowser.

 

[showcrop]

(quoted from post at 05:19:54 10/24/19) If it has water in it my wife could find it! Find a local dowser.

Russ, hopefully the pipe has no water in it or Charles will be replacing his system instead of building an addition , LOL.

 

[Jim Phelps]

Witching works because water is polar, it has a charge to it, with a positive and negative end to the molecule, that is why if you fill a glass slowly with water you can actually go past the rim.

 

[Steve@Advance]

This method is supposed to work, never personally tried, but seems possible.

You would need to get a wire inside the pipe, a fish tape, drain cleaner, something conductive.

Then start at a known location, follow the signal.
Radio Location

 

[Geo-TH,In]

Charles.
I've done a little construction work,
only for myself. Last job I added a
26x26 master bedroom, bath, walk in,
Laundry and sun room on to existing
house. My terramite was very handy
digging footers. Many DIY rentals have
them. Rent one, start digging around
septic. You may find you cant build your
additional over septic tank or lines.

You can't make an omelet without breaking
eggs. Same with construction, you'll
make a mess out of the yard.

 

[MarkB_MI]

> Witching works because water is polar, it has a charge to it, with a positive and negative end to the molecule, that is why if you fill a glass slowly with water you can actually go past the rim.

And that is what we call pseudoscience.

 

[sms]

My uncle was a dowser and could do map dowsing. Not as crazy as you make it sound.

 

[sotxbill]

First choice.. put an auger in it and you can hear the auger head thumping... Sound does not travel perfectly through ground so you can be off a couple of feet in each direction. I was off 3 foot at a house one time, but close.

Second.. you CAN witch it only if it has water in it.. I am an engineer,, and was very skeptical, till I met a cable locator that showed me how to witch with two copper wires.. then located the cable with a machine. I have since witched lines out here on the farm with mostly success. gripping the wire too tight, holding them level, in this case, coat hangers, or wind blowing, both will fail. But once you find a hit, you rewalk it several times to confirm it and will be within two feet or less over the line. I have only used this for shallow lines around two feet or less so... rarely in high mineral areas, this will not work. ymmv

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 10:26:47 10/24/19)
First choice.. put an auger in it and you can hear the auger head thumping... Sound does not travel perfectly through ground so you can be off a couple of feet in each direction. I was off 3 foot at a house one time, but close.

Second.. you CAN witch it only if it has water in it.. I am an engineer,, and was very skeptical, till I met a cable locator that showed me how to witch with two copper wires.. then located the cable with a machine. I have since witched lines out here on the farm with mostly success. gripping the wire too tight, holding them level, in this case, coat hangers, or wind blowing, both will fail. But once you find a hit, you rewalk it several times to confirm it and will be within two feet or less over the line. I have only used this for shallow lines around two feet or less so... rarely in high mineral areas, this will not work. ymmv

have done the radio lawnmower radio detection thing many times and it always works. Never as deep as 4-6 feet, so some question there. Small wire tied to toilet tissue and flush it down the pipe.

 

[MarkB_MI]

"Map dowsing"?!!! Do tell.

 

[Ray(MO)]

Witching can also find overhead power lines, when the wires cross look up to make sure there are no lines above.

 

[Idaho Digger]

Don't know about your location, but around here most drain cleaning outfits (Roto-Rooter, etc) run a camera down the cleaned pipe and also have a wand that pics up the camera location above ground. I had mine done, located the drain pipe 6 feet down. Upside is you get a cleaned drain plus know location of pipe and depth, downside is you gotta pay the 200 bux.

 

[Dusty MI]

I have found direct buried electric wires. And electric wires in conduit, both plastic and steel.
I have found gas lines, natural and LP.
Water lines, plastic and steel.
Abandoned lines from old oil wells.
Tile drains, both clay and plastic.
So why do some of you think that there has to be a pipe with water in it?
I've wondered over the years who this works, and the only way I can come up with is that the wires are locating the ditch that disturbed the earth. I don't think that I've ever tried to find a line that was horizontal bored in.
Not sure but I don't think I've ever tried to find something that was more than a couple of feet deep.

Dusty

 

[Mule Meat]

Is the house built on a slab or raised foundation?

Slab. A lot of times the existing commode can be removed and a snake used to get the general direction that the line goes.

Raised. Just look in the crawl space. You may be able to extend the existing line and or tie into it. If not you will know which direction or where it exits the foundation.

 

[dr sportster]

I would use an electricians snake and my wifes metal detector.

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 16:03:08 10/24/19) I would use an electricians snake and my wifes metal detector.

ust be a lot better than any metal detector than I have ever tried if it finds electricians snake at 4 to 6 feet deep!

 

[Charles in Aus.]

Thanks for all the useful and entertaining replies

I Dowse [ Witch ] , myself but I'm not that accurate , I did find a small spring at the farm , hidden under scrub and with no visible indications . It keeps a dam filled all year around now , a big thing in drought affected Gippsland . It is a gift from the Almighty and I would never discount it as a fable .

The line I want to find is the connection to the Municipal sewer system , I should have made that clear , sorry . A septic tank would have made the job truly simple .
The run is forty metres from the last bathroom and undergound for thirty of those , there ar two changes of direction as well .
The point at where I want to connect is closer to the final outlet into the main trunk. This trunk , not the connection, is in a neighbour's property under a manhole cover that is illegal to remove by yourself . If this is removed I could run a line or snake back up the pipe and use any of the suggestions made to find it but there's a problem . To remove this is a two month wait and a fee of $465. , worse only a registered contractor can enter $ 150. and on top of this I have to convince this neighbour [ who is diagonally behind our property] to let them dig up his garden and then pay to reinstate it afterwards $ ?? . That's why the locator services charge so much , $1800 was the cheapest I could find and there was no guarantee either .
Radio frequencies coming out of anything I can build won't be detectable from four odd feet under especially as pipes here are bedded into local bluestone screening that has a metal content that would shield the signal further . The sound idea might work , I'm going to try a few variations on that .
Otherwise it seems I'm going to have to Dowse for it , or dig a hole on speck .

 

[jeffcat]

I also had that done. Works as slick as a dream. You can even watch some TV while you are at it. Beleive it or not. If you live someplace that is quiet you can take the metal snake and feed it down the drain. Now have someone rattle it in the pipe as you listen. Needs to be very quiet but if it isn't too deep you can hear it. To amplify the sound take a 5 gallon bucket and cut a 6 inch circle in the bottom. Put it on the ground and stick your ear into the hole. Blocks out extraneous sounds.

 

[MeAnthony]

Wonder how it would work to shove a mechanic's stethoscope in the ground while doing this?

 

[sotxbill]

(quoted from post at 12:16:09 10/24/19) I have found direct buried electric wires. And electric wires in conduit, both plastic and steel.
I have found gas lines, natural and LP.
Water lines, plastic and steel.
Abandoned lines from old oil wells.
Tile drains, both clay and plastic.
So why do some of you think that there has to be a pipe with water in it?
I've wondered over the years who this works, and the only way I can come up with is that the wires are locating the ditch that disturbed the earth. I don't think that I've ever tried to find a line that was horizontal bored in.
Not sure but I don't think I've ever tried to find something that was more than a couple of feet deep.

Dusty

I have not been able to witch brand new, dry pvc lines that have no water in them. There is no magnetic alignment of the molecules, to create the magnetic field, to pull the metallic witches in dry pvc pipe. You might have a different experience than I. Once the soil settles over and the new trench line disappears, no water, no workie. Add water and in short order, you can witch. I have no gas other than pvc air lines buried between 3 buildings and those will not witch. I have not tired to witch power but did witch the telco cable years ago, so it works.

 

[4play]

I guess I'm lucky that my area has free location services that respond within 2 business days after calling in a locate. They never have to dig anything up and can find anything in the soil regardless of what it is. I know they have several tools at their disposal but it seems to me if someone has ground penetrating radar (GPR), that would be the best tool.

For the price you were quoted or less, you are near the cost of buying a hand held ground penetrating radar device. I don't think you need to buy one, but do the location services around there use GPR? For that quoted price, you could hire cheap labor to start digging holes until you found it for a fraction of the cost. Good luck!

 

[Mutt and Jeff]

Call a plumber
not a $1800 plumber
just a plumber

hire a contractor
just a contractor

ask a bunch of geriatric dirt monkeys

call a plumber

 

[Mutt and Jeff]

pipe finders
Hire this guy he can find a pipe underground

 

[Mutt and Jeff]

It's a quite simple affair
place a flat steel sewer tape in your mainline leaving the house
through a roof vent or unbolted commode if no easy "cleanout" access is in place

they can come in perhaps "up to" 300 ft lengths
attach the transmitter to it
walk about the yard with the reciever portion of the device and a can of marking paint

return device to rental yard and move on

 

[Ken Macfarlane]

Exactly as crazy as it sounds lol. Dowsing along has never beat skilled chance. A good dowser is good at predicting where water is or pipe runs with eye and intuition. It's nothing to do with the forked stick or the metal rods, or plumb bob, those are just crutches that let the person be comfortable sharing their best guess.

 

[dr sportster]

It will tell you it is iron based. { at that depth]

 

[Dusty MI]

(quoted from post at 18:19:26 10/24/19)

(quoted from post at 12:16:09 10/24/19) I have found direct buried electric wires. And electric wires in conduit, both plastic and steel.
I have found gas lines, natural and LP.
Water lines, plastic and steel.
Abandoned lines from old oil wells.
Tile drains, both clay and plastic.
So why do some of you think that there has to be a pipe with water in it?
I've wondered over the years who this works, and the only way I can come up with is that the wires are locating the ditch that disturbed the earth. I don't think that I've ever tried to find a line that was horizontal bored in.
Not sure but I don't think I've ever tried to find something that was more than a couple of feet deep.

Dusty

I have not been able to witch brand new, dry pvc lines that have no water in them. There is no magnetic alignment of the molecules, to create the magnetic field, to pull the metallic witches in dry pvc pipe. You might have a different experience than I. Once the soil settles over and the new trench line disappears, no water, no workie. Add water and in short order, you can witch. I have no gas other than pvc air lines buried between 3 buildings and those will not witch. I have not tired to witch power but did witch the telco cable years ago, so it works.

It would be interesting for me to try to find your air lines.

Dusty

 

[ditchwitch]

LOL dang that was funny ,we resemble that remark LOL

 

[ditchwitch]

Charles ,If you go under your house and look to see where your sewer pipe goes outside and you go back outside the house and mark it dig with
a set of post hole diggers and just spot it. Generally sewer will be in a straight line but if it has a bend or turn there should be a clean
out . But post hole diggers will be your best cheapest why to locate it. Your just locating not laying a new sewer line. Personally i would
spot it every 6 to 8 foot till you have what you need. Using The metal snake will be nothing but a messy stinking mess. And your going to
have to have other equipment like a locator. and if you dont know how to use it its useless. I would say using the post hole diggers youll
have what you need in a couple hours and its a done deal and all it cost you was a little of your time.

 

[ditchwitch]

That Video was funny as crap LMAO ,Dang that was funny

 

[ditchwitch]

Ive heard it works because of static electricity

 

[JMOR]

If you are going to 'witch' for it, day after tomorrow will be you best bet, until same time next year!

 

[fixerupper]

One bent wire will work too. I tried it once, it worked and ever since then i have used only one wire. The wire will always cross my body, it never points away from my body. Go figure!

 

[fixerupper]

(quoted from post at 07:16:03 10/31/19) One bent wire will work too. I tried it once, it worked and ever since then i have used only one wire. The wire will always cross my body, it never points away from my body. Go figure!

Oh, i should mention, witching does work for me. I find something every time. I just dont know what that something is.

 

[spacecadet9]

(quoted from post at 09:18:16 10/31/19)

Oh, i should mention, witching does work for me. I find something every time. I just dont know what that something is.

That makes 2 of us.;-)

 

[Blueford4000]

(quoted from post at 02:19:36 10/24/19) I don't know what to think about witching. People who I trust to be straight with me swear it works, but I've never seen it.

The one time I saw it in action, homeowner wanted me to dig up an old well head casing so he could drop a pump in it and use it to water his garden. He witched 4 different locations and I hit PVC at every one of them. Never did find the well.

I had a plumber in TN tell me he could witch the ground to find my water line.....he took his two wires and traced the line around to the back of my house. No, he was completely wrong....I found where the line came into the front of the house. Do not ever trust this method.