new electric range/old range power supply

[JOHN908]

My current electric range has 2 hot and 1 ground. The new induction ranges require 2 hot,1 netutal and ground.
Can I wrap white tape on the ground and call it netural and then run a number 12 green wire from my copper cold water pipe to the range as a ground?
I have seen pics that show the ground and netural strapped together. If I need a new supply line then I will keep what I have. I want to upgrade kitchen with new range and dishwasher to sell home.. Thanks for the help on my other posts.

 

[da.bees]

You sure know how to rain on the parade. Electric discussions have become more fun than tractors ever were.

 

[farmersamm]

You got two hots for the heating elements. 240v

You got a neutral for anything on that stove that runs at 120v.. They take one leg, and use it for 120v. So, you got a neutral for that leg.

So................you need 4 wires.

 

[Tony in SD]

My current electric range has 2 hot and 1 ground. The new induction ranges require 2 hot,1 netutal and ground.
Can I wrap white tape on the ground and call it netural and then run a number 12 green wire from my copper cold water pipe to the range as a ground?
I have seen pics that show the ground and netural strapped together. If I need a new supply line then I will keep what I have. I want to upgrade kitchen with new range and dishwasher to sell home.. Thanks for the help on my other posts.

If you are asking, "Will it work?" The answer is yes. If you are asking, "Is it to code?" Then the answer is no.

 

[Ultradog MN]

I don't know - (or ain't gonna say) if it will work.
I wired a tiny, unfinished cottage that we bought last June. It had no power to it before and there is no running water.
I pulled a permit, installed new underground service and panel and wired all the circuits. There was a small electric range in it so I ran the 220 circuit for that.
I ran 4 wire to the range.
I had to install a 220V GFCI in the panel for it.
I also had to install AFCI or GFCI type breakers for Every circuit in the building.
I passed inspection.
But talk about over kill.
All that stuff added about $300 to the cost.
My thoughts on that experience was that we have too darned many unelected bearucrats that have nothing else to do but invent new ways to prevent us from killing ourselves and pass more laws. That causes every thing to be A LOT more expensive and its one reason why we as a nation aren't competitive in the world any more.
And the scardycat sheeple love it. They eat it up.
I think about all the houses that burned in California. It is going to be a nightmare dealing with all the codes that have been added since those houses were originally built. And it is going to add a huge amount to the cost.
I feel sorry for them.

 

[showcrop]

My mother got a new range that needed four wire. I picked up some wire, a breaker, some staples. The stove was nearly over the panel, so the run was very short. I took me maybe an hour. I didn't use any standard schedule 40, or whatever it is called.

 

[Jim.ME]

Does the new range require 4 prongs? The last range I got came with out a cord and I got the 3 prong cord to match the 3 prong receptacle (pre 2000) already in service. Wiring instructions for both 3 and 4 prong cords were in the range installation instructions. YMMV

Edited to correct auto fill

 

[moresmoke]

A length of 8-3 w/ground and a new outlet are not that expensive. Since you want to sell the house, do it right. If the prospective buyer hires an inspector that is any decent they will flag it. Or just leave it for the buyer to replace. You could even go so far as to offer $x.xx in credit for new appliances. Then the buyer can get whatever they want.

My opinion, which may not align with code, metal water pipes should be grounded, but never used as a ground conductor. Why would you want to induce stray currents into your water system?

 

[TerryfromSWIowa]

You can drop 1 wire size for a ground. So if you have 10 ga you can use 12. But I don't think you can use water line for a ground point anymore.

 

[NoDakInMN]

If you want to avoid a hassle, this is the time to hire an electrician because your question shows you are in a bit over your head here. When you sell the house, there will most likely be a home inspection and anything you jury rigged will be flagged and then you will be stuck hiring an electrician to bring everything back up to code. More over, finding this jury rigged item will cause the inspector to examine everything more closely, possibly opening up a whole new can of worms for you.

 

[kencombs]

Most, maybe all, ranges come without a cord, same with dryers. Your situation is the reason why.

The code changed in about 1966 from allowing 3 wire connections to the current code for 4 wires.

Every range and dryer I've installed came with no cord and instructions on how to install using a 3 or 4 wire, depending on how the home was wired.
The 3 wire receptacle has no ground, just Hot, Hot and neutral. Using it with a 3 wire cord requires the 'ground' to use the neutral. Not a good thing if the appliance develops an internal short to ground, as the frame becomes energized.

However, if the home was wired prior to 66, it is code compliant to install using the makers instructions.

Not recommended, but not illegal.

My recommendation is, change the recpt, add a ground and use a 4 wire cord. Otherwise install as the range directions indicate.

 

[JMOR]

“Becomes energized”, by the amount of voltage drop in the neutral wire

 

[Bob Bancroft]

My current electric range has 2 hot and 1 ground. The new induction ranges require 2 hot,1 netutal and ground.
Can I wrap white tape on the ground and call it netural and then run a number 12 green wire from my copper cold water pipe to the range as a ground?
I have seen pics that show the ground and netural strapped together. If I need a new supply line then I will keep what I have. I want to upgrade kitchen with new range and dishwasher to sell home.. Thanks for the help on my other posts.

So my question is, how would I run a four wire to my panel, or what would it gain me, where the neutrals and grounds are all hooked together? I have several sub panels, and everything is old enough I have no four wire anything here! I do have ground rods and cables everywhere.

 

[kencombs]

deleted

 

[Jim.ME]

So my question is, how would I run a four wire to my panel, or what would it gain me, where the neutrals and grounds are all hooked together? I have several sub panels, and everything is old enough I have no four wire anything here! I do have ground rods and cables everywhere.

Exactly why most replacement appliances are sold without cords. You pick the one that matches your house wiring and use the instructions the appliance manufacturer provides for the type cord you choose.

 

[kencombs]

So my question is, how would I run a four wire to my panel, or what would it gain me, where the neutrals and grounds are all hooked together? I have several sub panels, and everything is old enough I have no four wire anything here! I do have ground rods and cables everywhere.

Don't the how of the question as I can't see your house from here. The short to ground with a 3 wire takes a path through the frame of the appliance. It does not take that path with a 4 wire and that's a good thing. Ground rods do not provide a personal safety ground as the resistance is too high. They are intended for lightning protection only.

I guess it depends on the actual risk. If your range has very little metal exposed to the user, the 3 wire may be ok. After all it's been there for years. On a dryer, I'd be much more wary, huge metal frame and all.

 

[Bob Bancroft]

Exactly why most replacement appliances are sold without cords. You pick the one that matches your house wiring and use the instructions the appliance manufacturer provides for the type cord you choose.

Several years ago we helped our son move from a rental house to one he bought which had just been refurbished. I was surprised to find he was leaving a four prong receptacle for the clothes dryer to a three prong one! I went and bought a three prong pigtail and hooked it up as per instructions in the back of the dryer.
My stove now is LP gas, dryer is electric. The house panel is actually a sub panel, as the main is at the grain bins. Our former house had electric stove, but again, I had no four wire anything there either.

 

[Bob Bancroft]

Don't the how of the question as I can't see your house from here. The short to ground with a 3 wire takes a path through the frame of the appliance. It does not take that path with a 4 wire and that's a good thing. Ground rods do not provide a personal safety ground as the resistance is too high. They are intended for lightning protection only.

I guess it depends on the actual risk. If your range has very little metal exposed to the user, the 3 wire may be ok. After all it's been there for years. On a dryer, I'd be much more wary, huge metal frame and all.

This is a problem I have with this form of communication. My statements are apparently misleading, or not specific enough. Physically running a cable is not a concern. How it is hooked up inside the panel is, as stated, grounds and neutrals are all hooked together.

 

[bc]

Go to the store and pull the manual or find it online for the oven you want. It will have instructions if it allows for a 3 prong receptacle. I it requires or comes with a 4 prong cord and 4 prong receptacle then pull new wire.

Problem nowadays is that these ovens and ranges have these motherboards in them that may be made to run on a standard 120v circuit. The 240v powers the heating elements.

Bot all new Samsung appliances a few years ago. Just after the warranty period ended, the motherboard on the 3 prong range made the display act up and flash around. All the main functions still work but the display is hard to read. Replacing it requires a new top section.

A push button and the motherboard went bad on the microwave during the warranty period. Required a new door. First he ordered the wrong door. The second door was dented on the side. He offered to order a third one and I declined.

 

[DoubleO7]

finding this jury rigged item will cause the inspector to examine everything more closely,

YEP........and not just electrical.