New Guy in Western NC

[bembry]

I've been lurking on the site for a couple months so I figured I ought to register and say hi.

I have an early '50 8N (front mount distributor).

I use it to bush hog my 9 hilly acres and have an old 5 ft King Kutter bush hog.

I bought the tractor in March, and it's the first tractor I've owned. I'm not super mechanical, and I'm really not good with electrical stuff, but I'm not new to old Fords though....I own a 63 Galaxie that I've had since 1987.

I changed out the oil, filter, and changed trans/diff/hyd fluid right after I got the tractor. I also recently did plugs, points, rotor, cap, and condenser. The old fluids were predictably nasty. I added an ORC and replaced the PTO shaft after a forward gear to reverse gear newbie error with the PTO engaged. It has a new 12v coil as of this week too.

The tractor was converted to 12v sometime in the past, but runs a generator instead of an alternator.

The hydraulics work good and I get over engine 20 lbs oil pressure after working it hard in hot weather.

The tractor smokes a little, and worked great for a couple of months. I'm currently chasing a weak spark issue. I can use it for like 30-45 minutes, then it starts running like crap (missing, sputtering), gets weak, and dies. I checked fuel flow at the bottom of the carb (seemed good), and checked spark with the tester Bruce listed in a previous article. The spark was really weak and non-existant on one plug wire. If the tractor has a ballast resistor, I certainly can't seem to find it. It also has an exhaust leak at #4 cylinder at the head and also at the hook up joint for the muffler pipe. I've got a new manifold and muffler coming from YT--they should arrive later this week.

Brent

 

[bembry]

 

[Bruce (VA)]

Make a jumper wire to go directly from the battery to the coil. As soon as it starts losing spark, hook up the jumper wire directly to the coil stud.


Yes, it needs the oem ballast resistor. It's behind the dash above where all the wires connect.



See tip # 53 re the exhaust like.


Re the new manifold and pipe...??..This method of attaching the exhaust pipe to the manifold was developed for the Model A Ford in 1927. If you pay attention to what you are doing, it will not leak. You do not need tinfoil or gasket sealer to prevent leaks. Use the correct parts & install them correctly & it will not leak.



Make sure you are using the correct clamp. An automotive muffler c-clamp will not work. You need a clamp made for the N. If you have the correct clamp, it has a top & bottom. Make sure you have the clamp on correctly; check out tip # 8, below. All clamps are not created equally; the correct clamp should have 9/16 brass nuts.

Slide the tail pipe into the hanger clamp & then place the end of the exhaust pipe against the manifold. Look at it! Remember, the pipe will most always fit snugly to the OEM manifold w/o any problem, but a replacement manifold will likely not be the exact same size as the OEM manifold, so you will have some work to do. If it does not mate all the way around, put a broomstick down the pipe & into the manifold & gently bend the pipe until both surfaces mate snugly & squarely. If the exhaust pipe flange is bent, you will never get a good seal; check it out. The clamp is not a gasket; if the pipe & manifold do not mate tightly, it will leak. Do not try & hold the exhaust pipe against the manifold w/ your hand & while you tighten the clamp. Get out your floor jack & a block of wood; put the jack under the pipe to hold it tightly against the manifold. Confirm that the pipe is mated squarely to the manifold; if it is crooked, it will not seat. With the pipe jacked snugly and squarely to the manifold use your ? lb ball peen hammer and tap the pipe tight to the manifold flange all the way around. Its soft metal and this will only take about a minute. Tighten the clamp. (Don't get carried away w/ the jack or you will bend the pipe. Or, overtighten the clamp & snap it in two. BTDT). Put equal pressure on the clamp by tightening one side a few turns then a few turns on the other. Do not expect the clamp sides to touch; about 1/8? gap is normal.

When the clamp is tightened equally on both sides, remove the jack. If the pipe flops around, start over because you put the clamp on upside down. (Remember tip # 8)
75 Tips

 

[Dick W. Pirkey, Jr.]

The resister may not be ceramic, but actually fiberboard in construction.

 

[bembry]

Thank you for the advice. It took me a while to get back to the tractor, but anyway I made me a jumper wire and got out to start it (before using the jumper). No luck even starting now...it just cranks without firing. I pulled the plugs and cleaned them off with carb cleaner and then dried them and tried again with the jumper wire. It was making good contact and I had my gauges working and lit up just like when the key is on. Still nothing. Not sure what to do now. I pulled the distributor off to see if I burned up the points. To my untrained eye, they look OK, and again, are pretty new. I was going to dress them with some paper, but then it started raining so I came in and posted this. I'm at a loss.
Brent

 

[bembry]

Went and dressed the points with a small piece of brown paper bag, checked he gap, put everything back together and tried again. Nothing but cranking, with or without the jumper cable.

 

[bembry]

I found this post from Bruce to another fellow having spark issues. I will follow through nd report findings.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Before you check anything else, make sure you have the correct voltage at the top of the coil. It should be battery voltage w/ the points open & about half that w/ the points closed.
Assuming that the bushings & advance weights are ok, & that you have correct voltage to the coil, the most common electrical failure (no spark, weak spark) points on the frontmount are:
1. The insulator under the brass concave head screw & where the copper strip attaches. (it s fiber & will wear out; poke & prod w/ your meter leads to make sure it still works)
2. The pigtail at the bottom of the coil not making contact w/ the concave head brass screw inside the distributor. (With the coil on, the pigtail must firmly contact the brass screw. No contact = no spark.).
3. The copper strip is broken or grounded to the plate. (look very carefully for cracks & breaks)
4. The condenser wire grounding to the plate or side of the distributor.
5. The tab on the bottom of the coil not making contact w/ the brass button on the cap. (With the cap on, the tab must firmly contact the brass button. No contact = no spark.)
6. Incorrect positioning of the spring clip on the plate causing the pigtail to ground. (the open part of the clip goes between 7 & 9 o clock on the plate. That puts the straight part of the clip opposite of the timing screw at 3 o clock)
7. Incorrect seating of the coil on the distributor due to a loose bail or no gasket.(the coil must not move at all; if it does, replace the gasket or bail. Or stick some cardboard under the bail).
8. Water/moisture inside the cap due to gasket failure or the absence of a gasket. (the cap AND coil have gaskets)
9. Dirty/corroded/burned/incorrectly gapped or misaligned points.
10. Burned rotor, cracked/carbon tracked cap.
Unless the coil is cracked or shows a dead short, chances are it's fine; square coils rarely fail cold. Pull the distributor & do a continuity check.
First, make sure your meter/light works (don't ask....)
You can change points everyday & it will not fix bad bushings. If you are having trouble w/ points failure, check the shaft. If you detect movement, chances are it needs new bushings.
Inspect the points; if they are pitted or burned, replace them. Next, dress the points by running a piece of card stock or brown paper bag through them. New points sometimes have an anti-corrosive dielectric coating on them & old points can corrode or pick up grease from a dirty feeler gauge or excessive cam lubricant. Make sure the points align correctly. Proper alignment is also critical to longevity. Look at the points when they are closed; both sides should mate evenly. Then, check the gap at .015 on the high point of all 4 cam lobes.
Now, follow these steps:
1. Coil off, cap off, points open. One probe on the brass screw & the other on both sides of the open points. On the side closest to the cam, you should have continuity. Not on the other side! If you do, you will also have continuity everywhere because the points are grounded.
2. Coil off, cap off, points open. One probe on the brass screw & the other anywhere on the body of the distributor. You should have no continuity! Now, rotate the tang on the distributor....as the points open & close, you have continuity (closed) and lose it when they open.
3. Coil on, cap off, points open. One probe on the lead on the top of the coil, the other on the cam side of the open points. You should have continuity!
4. Coil on, cap off, points open. One probe on the lead on the top of the coil, the other anywhere on the body of the distributor. You should have no continuity!
At this point, I just put the distributor, coil & cap all back on the tractor as a unit. The reason I do this is because it is real easy to get the cap or coil mis-aligned trying to put it back together one piece at a time & the result is something gets broken or you get a no spark problem.
It's possible to put it back on wrong & break it. Look at the slot on the end of the cam shaft. What ever angle it happens to be, turn the distributor tang to match it. Make sure you can tell the wide side from the narrow side on both the cam & distributor! (close counts) Then place the distributor on the front of the engine, gently push it in place & slowly turn the distributor body until you feel the tang slip into the slot. Rotate the distributor body until the bolt holes line up. Then, hand tighten the two bolts until the distributor body is flush w/ the timing gear cover.
Finally, double check your firing order & plug wires. It s 1-2-4-3, counterclockwise. It s very easy to cross 3 & 4.
Post back w/ results & any other questions. "
75 Tips

 

[bembry]

Oh and of note:

- I haven't fooled with any carb adjustments. It ran adjusted as is and so I left it. All I did was pull the bottom bolt and check for flow. It seemed like the stream would fill a pint bottle in 2-3 mins as it is supposed to.

- The tractor ran on the old points, it ran on the new ones too. Same symptoms until recently. (problem was that it would start losing power and then dying after 30-40 minutes. Now it wont even start)

- It ran with the old coil, it ran with the new coil. Same symptoms until recently (now that it wont start at all).

- It ran with the old plugs and wires. I replaced the plugs. They were nasty and oil fouled but still worked. After replacement, It ran the same.

- I haven't been able to get it to run as of a few days ago to even try the jumper wire around the ignition to see if it makes a difference. Just trying to start it now, the jumper wire or the ignition switch makes no difference.

- It has good gas in it. I've used the tractor to bush hog my 9 acres a couple times since buying the tractor. Much brand new non ethanol gas has flowed through it.

- The sediment bowl had some junk in it. I cleaned it out. The screen was fairly clean.

- I am concerned that I can't see any ballast resistor. I bought a new one from YT just to see if I was missing it. I just don't think it has one. I have do idea how to wire it up if necessary. Again though, it ran quite a bit as is.

It is a 12 v converted front mount distributor model but has a generator vice alternator. It cranks strong.

 

[bembry]

OK, got back from out of town and a chance to work on the tractor.

Wow, what a frustrating time.

I ran through Bruce's checklist. The only continuity issues from the list were I was unable to get continuity across the points when closed. They didn't look terrible to me, maybe a bit dark to my untrained eye, but I had nothing across them when closed. So I had another tune up kit ready to go from YT. I put on new points, rotor, condensor, checked gap on all lobes to .015, checked continuity across new points, and also made sure little insulator under brass screw was still insulating. It was.

A weird thing was that I had voltage on the back bolt under the dash holding on the ignition switch. That said, I jumpered around it and went to fire it up. And it fired up....but was stumbling and missing. Well, I got wire 1 and 2 mixed up. So, I tried cranking on it again after fixing that, and nothing. Just cranking without start.

After cranking on it, I figured I had it flooded out so I pulled the plugs, squirted them down with carb cleaner, and let them dry, them reinstalled.

Tried again....nothing. So I checked spark--not one bit. And also, now no voltage on the back of the ignition switch anymore. And no voltage now at the top of the coil either when just using the ignition switch without the jumper wire.

The only thing other than the ignition switch voltage is that the new points didn't align very well. Continuity across them closed was good and the gap was set, but they met a little cockeyed. I couldn't get them straight. That said--it should have still fired up again, right?

I didn't take the distributor back off after that....was beat and sweating to death, so I came in.

I don't think the bushings are bad in the distributor. It has no wobble or play side to side on the shaft at all. The shaft will go a bit forward and backwards (like a mm) in the same line as it is mounted though when it's out of the tractor.

Frustrated in Western NC. Anyone near Hendersonville?

Brent