Reviving an old HF, TO-83196

[Alex MacEwing]

Thanks Jim , the tractor now has been converted to negative ground they might do it that way, I will get Janise to ask for that...

What are your thoughts on having her get the regulator checked out while she is at it....?? I believe she may still have a battery drain with the key off, as the battery seems to drain over night which isn't normal IMO.....

As my TEA20s, were factory built with 12 volt systems, positive ground, I never did any polarizing.....I thought it was just the generator you needed to worry about, but I did see something on the forum here about doing the regulator , but I didn't understand why....

 

[Janise]

Not trying to make more work for you but if you could call them and ask if they could also test it, before you go to the trouble of removing it, then you would know if both are compactible and also if either need polarizing , it would save you the trouble?? maybe....

Mat had them test the generator and was told it was only functioning about 50%. Sparks were flying due to the armature.

 

[Janise]

Just a technical point. The generator gets polarized to the ground of the vehicle as they will and generate the polarity polarized to. Even if the generator polarizing is described as being done at the regulator terminals, a regulator does not get polarized. Some regulators used to be specified for the system ground they were built to use with, I don't know if that is still true or not it has been many years since I have purchased a generator regulator. If the shop is told the ground of the vehicle the generator is going on they should polarize it to that ground during testing.

I will call the shop and ask them about the voltage regulator.

 

[Alex MacEwing]

sounds good and tell them you now have a 12 volt negative ground setup.....

 

[Jim.ME]

Thanks Jim , the tractor now has been converted to negative ground they might do it that way, I will get Janise to ask for that...

What are your thoughts on having her get the regulator checked out while she is at it....?? I believe she may still have a battery drain with the key off, as the battery seems to drain over night which isn't normal IMO.....

As my TEA20s, were factory built with 12 volt systems, positive ground, I never did any polarizing.....I thought it was just the generator you needed to worry about, but I did see something on the forum here about doing the regulator , but I didn't understand why....

Many will say they polarized the regulator if they are following a set of instructions telling them the terminals to jump at the regulator to do the generator polarization, not understanding the current will go to the generator terminals from there. "I used I jumper wire on the regulator terminals, therefore I polarized the regulator", thought process due to location.

If I remember right one of the reasons the regulators that specified which ground, they were for, had different materials on the mating contact points which would last better if current was flowing a certain direction.

 

[Alex MacEwing]

Jim , thanks, would these tractors be scares in Texas because of the size of the farms or are Harry Fergusons scattered across the country??

Here in Ontario, they were all over the farming community. I live just outside of Kitchener/Waterloo and there were 5-6 of them at one time with in a mile of our village , that is how I ended up with 2 of them, I was the 2nd owner on one of them....

 

[Jim.ME]

Jim , thanks, would these tractors be scares in Texas because of the size of the farms or are Harry Fergusons scattered across the country??

Here in Ontario, they were all over the farming community. I live just outside of Kitchener/Waterloo and there were 5-6 of them at one time with in a mile of our village , that is how I ended up with 2 of them, I was the 2nd owner on one of them....

I am much closer to you than I am to Texas, but I would say they were scattered across the country. Like all brands, dealers, machine offerings, and support in an area usually drove what was prevalent in that area.

 

[Alex MacEwing]

Yes, that is the same pattern here, the farmers dealt with the local dealer, as in cars, trucks, lawn mowers, snowblowers etc.....I lived thru the era of forking manure , etc , the 3 point hitch was a huge improvement for the farmers, along with grain augers and combines etc....

 

[Janise]

I don't know if I am responding on the right thread or not but here goes. A big shout out (if allowed here) to Shockey's Machine Shop in Dumas Texas for taking my generator in this morning and having it ready to go this afternoon! My son and I put the generator on despite 40 mph wind and dust. It started up but I have 8.6 volts on the top terminal of the generator (A) and 7.4 volts on the other one. While tying up the wires I noticed the black wire, which is on the bottom post was warming up. Also when I attached the pos. back on the battery, it sparked a lot. When the blck wire from the ammeter was removed it did not spark but did not start the tractor either. I'm afraid something is wired wrong. I will call the shop tomorrow and see if it was a 12v generator. He said if this didn't fix the problem then it must be the voltage regulator.

 

[Alex MacEwing]

Janise, thanks for the update.......if you have not done it, I would leave the negative (-) battery cable disconnected, until you figure out what is going on. Did the guy at Shockeys, offer that it was a 12 volt generator??

 

[Janise]

No and I forgot to ask. I got there 15 minutes before closing.

 

[Alex MacEwing]

If you are available in the morning I would call him and see if he can confirm if you have a 12 volt generator?? I will admit that I have never measured a 6 volt generator, but a 12 volt generator normally puts out something higher than 12 volts, ie 12.8-13.8ish. So your readings of 7 - 8 volts may indicate you have a 6 volt genny, but my reasoning could be totally wrong.

 

[Janise]

He didn't close till 7, but got no answer. There is a big grass fire SE of us. All his shop help is on the volunteer fire crew. So I bet he closed early.

 

[Alex MacEwing]

yep ok, remember we are helping you , on your time schedule .....

 

[Janise]

yep ok, remember we are helping you , on your time schedule .....

Alex, there has got to be something not wired right. After all the new connections, new battery, new voltage regulator, new generator, that wire from the ammeter is still getting warm. I'm wondering if I should just leave it and see what melts or catches on fire.

 

[Alex MacEwing]

Have you checked the output of the generator or talked to your generator shop to see if they have someone that could come to check your wiring out or a local they could suggest?? The diagram I sent a few weeks ago, have you tried to see if your wiring matches it?? No I would not be leaving thing connected if it is getting hot......you appeared to have enough fires in your area!!!!

If you don't connect the ammeter wire the tractor will not start?? Are you able to post a picture showing the wires connected to the voltage regulator as well as the wires connected to the generator??

 

[Jim.ME]

Have you checked the output of the generator or talked to your generator shop to see if they have someone that could come to check your wiring out or a local they could suggest?? The diagram I sent a few weeks ago, have you tried to see if your wiring matches it?? No I would not be leaving thing connected if it is getting hot......you appeared to have enough fires in your area!!!!

If you don't connect the ammeter wire the tractor will not start?? Are you able to post a picture showing the wires connected to the voltage regulator as well as the wires connected to the generator??

Is this still the regulator that was on the tractor? Did it get checked by the shop that rebuilt the genetator? Unhook the wire from the regulator that supplies power from the ammeter to the regulator, the regulator cutout points may be welded shut, if it is the old regulator. Easy thing to check.

 

[Alex MacEwing]

Jim. I will offer the latest update I'm aware of... I believe Janise has changed the regulator recently and has also found a wiring error regarding the regulator.
She by accident , created a leak in the oil pressure gauge connection to the engine block and is currently dealing with that the last I have heard.

I will try to keep this post up to date as we move on thru this adventure.

Thanks for your interest.....Alex

 

[Janise]

I am happy to report that after correcting my wiring boo boo and replacing the oil pressure line (thanks to my son), the tractor is running and all the electrical issues are gone! Without the contributions from this forum I would have given up on this project and called it quits. Thanks to everyone who offered advice and directions to successfully complete the repair! Once the weather warms up a bit, my son and I plan on repairing the brakes. To all the farm wives out there, get with your men and pay attention to what he does on the farm. One day you may need to take over if, God forbid, something happens to them.

 

[Janise]

To correct my big wiring mistake, my son rewired the ammeter in line and between the battery terminal on the voltage regulator and the hot post of the starter switch that has the hot battery cable on it as well. A spark was still produced with the ignition in the off position so he looked at the insulating material around the ammeter posts and found them degraded. So he coated them in permatex and it solved the short. Now the ammeter shows it is charging. He thinks the short had been there a while. Thanks to the wiring diagram Alex sent he was able to trace the short. It runs better than it has in a decade!