Well, that's not good!!

[Adirondack case guy]

Went to cleaning up the heads and removeing the pistons and rods on the 931 today. All 3 heads were cracked thru the valve ports on the front cylinder only. Back cylinder no problems. What would be the reason for that???.
Pulled the pistons and rods. All std bearings and crank journals and bearings all looked good; however three rods were different and #5 rod was in #4 bore. the #2-3-5 replacement rods were never numbered, and it is is odvious to me the bblock has been replaced. No sn# tage on the front boss where pump mounts, just holes for the rivits.
Our former head mechanic stopped by this afternoon, but he had no knoledge of the block transplant or why. The previous owner always used a farmer friend to do his mechanical work, and from what I've seen, I'm not impressed.
Tomarrow I will fab up a stand to bolt to the bellhousing and then remove the front axle and bolster and then pull the engine from the tranny.
New sleeves, pistons and bearings are in order.
There was a post on TT here about a week ago about a company that rebuild/welded cracked heads. Do any of you know anything about them.
John, my parts list is growing.
Loren

 

[560farm]

Loren, it was probably Midwest Cylinder Head and Machine in Nevada,Ia. one-eight hundred-873-8506 I have not had to use them yet but have heard very good things about them.

Brad

 

[casecollectorsc]

Were they leaking coolant....can't see any pitting in the photos. Had a big 500 apart that had visible cracks but had them magna-fluxed and the cracks weren't leaking. Put it together 15 years ago and still no problem....and it has plowed quite often.

 

[mEl]

(quoted from post at 20:46:27 01/06/16) Went to cleaning up the heads and removeing the pistons and rods on the 931 today. All 3 heads were cracked thru the valve ports on the front cylinder only. Back cylinder no problems. What would be the reason for that???.
Pulled the pistons and rods. All std bearings and crank journals and bearings all looked good; however three rods were different and #5 rod was in #4 bore. the #2-3-5 replacement rods were never numbered, and it is is odvious to me the bblock has been replaced. No sn# tage on the front boss where pump mounts, just holes for the rivits.
Our former head mechanic stopped by this afternoon, but he had no knoledge of the block transplant or why. The previous owner always used a farmer friend to do his mechanical work, and from what I've seen, I'm not impressed.
Tomarrow I will fab up a stand to bolt to the bellhousing and then remove the front axle and bolster and then pull the engine from the tranny.
New sleeves, pistons and bearings are in order.
There was a post on TT here about a week ago about a company that rebuild/welded cracked heads. Do any of you know anything about them.
John, my parts list is growing.
Loren

Loren, as per our conversation via phone this AM, I was under the impression you were going to do an in frame. Since the block will be on the floor I would have the deck surfaced and the counter bores reset IF no cracks are found. This could change deck height and require some change in the piston, the reason I say that is the warpage appeared to be at least .020 at the center if the deck by your photo. I truly have never seen that much warpage. The thing I would watch is intake valve to piston clearance if block milling is done. I have seen 188s milled and reset and evidence of contact seen on the valve reliefs in the pistons that is the reason I mention it. If you mill the block and do not have to mess with piston height that hing is gonna start, it's amazing what a little boost in compression will do.

 

[brutus49DC]

there are lots of cracked heads that don't leak, only a pressure test will tell the tale, what difference does the rod numbers make, they are all the same and after re-conditioning them it makes no difference, just re-number before disassembly if it bothers you, if done right it will never come apart again

 

[Adirondack case guy]

Steve, It was dumping antifreeze bigtime into the pan. I bought it knowing that the coolant was migrating to the pan. I drained out over 2qts off antifreeze before any oil came out of the pan drain. It was also bleeding antifreeze out of the exaust manifold on #1 cylinder.
Loren

 

[Adirondack case guy]

It has been a year since the tractor was last run, and you can see the rust migrating out of the cracks. There was evidense of anti freeze in the ring glands on the cylinders that had the cracks.
All the repairs that I have seen front to back on this tractor lack any form of professionalism and pride.
You're correct that the numbers on the rods make no diff if new bearings and wrist pin bushings are installed, but wouldn't you have enough pride to put it back together with the numbers in proper order.
Loren

 

[centash]

There's yer problem---ya pulled 7 pistons from a 6 cylinder engine!!

Ben

 

[EliG]

Loren,

I have used them in the past and I live about 30 miles from their shop. They did all of the machine work on my 400 diesel engine. They tested for cracks, fixed the cracks, new guides, surfacing, and new valve seats on both heads. It was about $700 per head. They also boiled, crack tested, built up and surfaced the top of the block, and fixed the lower sleeve bores (where the o-rings seat) on my block. They ground my crank. It wasn't cheap but it all worked in the end. I'd use them again.

Good luck!

Eli

 

[EliG]

Oops! Guess I should have said that I used Midwest Cylinder and Head in Nevada, IA.

Eli

 

[1370rod]

Darn that is not what you wanted to see for sure. Well Loren, if you have decided to remove the block perhaps that will change the game plan a bit. You will have all kinds of options now, keep us informed. Thanks for the chat. Rod.

 

[01gentdc]

loren , that is not good , hold on to your wallot ! you are gonna be upside down bad on this tractor,...the craks thru the valve ports must have a reason ,, just cant be coincidental, am thinkin that the water manifold did not circulate and cool correctly and therefor those cylindars were run hotter than others ,,. but I bet that will be onefine runnin 930 when you get it fixt

 

[Old Scovy]

Loren as you know I don't know any thing about fixing any thing. As a teamster for many years I always carried a dime in my tool box. Any way I do know of a repair shop that can't be beat. About all he repairs is tractor motors. He has a oven and I have seen him cook a head or block up to red hot then fix it. Don't know how or why he does it. I know this man very well and he is a very precision minded person. He is a Amish man in Lancaster Co. Pa. The name of the shop is Spring Garden Repair. The man's name is Ike Stoltzfuse ? Spelling not sure . Some one must know him and be better suited to tell you about him. I don't have his phone number right now but if you think you want it I can get it. Jack

 

[Ande]

Just a thought, was this tractor ever turbo'd, or was the torque capsule turned up?

 

[Ande]

Wish I could borrow you my counter bore tool!

 

[fred goodrich]

Loren, UAP in Utica is a great place for work I can get you a number if you need it. They or Ed Lewis does a great job on those Case heads. Hey Old Scovey! Got to get you a picture of my new ride. Joe Brown is a clue. I can here you now,"what would posess a man to buy a ------" Figure it out yet?

 

[Adirondack case guy]

HeHe, I wondered if some one would notice that. I just happen to have another 930 6spd with a badly frozen (junk) block.
I thought I would mess with you guys a bit. HeHe I might as well laugh as to cry.
Loren

 

[Nedd]

Well that is one interesting tractor engine. Not sure how the weight is but those rods with the flat square on the bottoms came from very late 930/1030s and very early 970/1070s. When balancing engines started to really change things. If they are not the same wight and may have cause combustion/detonation issues. Not saying for sure (because I didn't take it apart and not looking at it in person) but may have contributed to hotter cylinders and cracked heads. Less weight rods take different amount of energy to be forced around crank. You need to make sure you install rods that are the same. I suggest you look for a donor motor that has a thrown rod bearing. Good luck.

 

[Adirondack case guy]

Fred, I know exactly where they are in Utica. They did a lot of work for us when we were in business, but I was unaware they could weld heads. Thanks for the tip, that is close by and I will call them today.
Loren

 

[Don Rudolph]

Ouch! That motor must have been run hot. I hope you can get those heads repaired reasonably. Don

 

[big tee]

Hey Case guy--I can help you out real good-and cheap... I have three heads laying here that I don' need and lots of other 930 parts. Give me a call 563-637-2774....Thanks----Tee

 

[01gentdc]

i noticed that too ,, and meant to add a comment to centash,.

 

[Adirondack case guy]

Hey Fred, I called UAP. They said that Ed moved south, and they DON"T weld heads. We tried.
Loren

 

[jon f mn]

All 3 heads really sucks. The rod issue is weird too. Hopefully you've found everything now. She's going to be a beauty when she's done tho.

 

[Old Scovy]

If it is something to do with Joe Brown I would say it is a Studebaker Hawk or a Nash Metropolitan ? I didn't cheat and call Joe. So how close did I guess ?? Jack

 

[hd6gtom]

I can tell you a couple of horror stories that happened to me at Midwest cyl head. I would not take then a thing anymore.

 

[Bhunt]

I feel your pain Adirondack case guy Ive had my fill of problems as well best of luck with it.
Byron

 

[oldmisterbill]

Well I will say this - every time I delt or heard of Menninites or Amish doing something - they do it correctly,using old skills passed on from their for fathers. And always done with pride in their skills.I have a lot of resoct for them, Of course there are a few (very few) that don't follow tradition.