Why plow at all?

[KYfarm]

here is a question I have been pondering lately.

Why plow at all? Why not just run a disc to loosen up the soil?

I only plant about 5 acres of field corn to grind into feed for my cattle. I taught myself how to grow corn with the equipment I inherited. A plow, a disc and a 4-row JD plate planter.

Every year I plow up last years cornfield, wait about 45 days, then disc twice, fertilize and lime and disc again then plant, has worked pretty good, but its hilly here in KY and I have noticed my field running down the hill after rains.

I also feel like I am turning the fertilized soil and trash over to the bottom and bringing up clay when I plow. If I wanted (and I need to) spread lime now and then plowed up that field, I would have just wasted that lime.

SO, since i like to get it real broken up by discing the small area multiple times aren't I just wasting my time by plowing.

Oh yea, I do use round-up ready corn and spray when it is about 2 feet tall.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Because a disc compacts the soil. You can get away with just disking, for a year or 2, maybe more, but soon or later, you will have to plow, or chisel plow, to penetrate the compacted layer.

 

[Bob Bancroft]

Here in central NY most anyone who has tried growing corn with shallow or no tillage has given it up. It may work on occasion,depending on the weather. Moldboard plowing,chisel plowing, and strip-till are all used successfully. What they have in common is loosening up the soil where the plant needs to grow.

 

[Bob Bancroft]

I almost forgot, there is one operator who uses ridge-til successfully. Apparently his ridges stay high and dry enough(and they're never run on) that they stay loose enough to grow corn.

 

[IaGary]

Most of our tillage has gone away from the moldboard plow.

We use a chisel plow on corn stalks in the fall if time allows or needed.

On bean stubble we subsoil in the fall to loosen the lower soil without distrubing the top stubble. Then one pass with a field cultivator in the spring before planting.

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[Ken Macfarlane]

No till is gaining up here in the northeast. More and more every year. Still need to plow to level some fields out.

 

[msb]

Ever see one of those big disks on a road construction jobs ? Dave is right. A disk is the best compaction tool you can find on a farm.

 

[fixerupper]

Here in Iowa some farmers are successful with no-till if they farm an area that has lighter soil but Iowa has different weather conditions than Kentucky.

The one big factor you have going against you with no-tilling in Kentucky is your soil doesn't freeze deep enough loosen the soil like it does in the northern states. The jury is still out as to whether plowing kills more insects or not. Some claim no-till leaves the insect eggs on top where the winter weather will kill them, others claim the insects merely have a better jump on spring if left on top of the soil.

I do have a 66 acre field that I've no-tilled for five years and I really don't know if there's an advanatage or not. It's poorer, lighter ground that doesn't yield well no matter what I do and I have no comparable soil elsewhere to compare it with. Jim

 

[greenbeanman in Kansas]

Discs on highway construction sites aren't used for soil compaction. They mix the various kinds of soil together as they are added instead of allowing layering which tends to be less stable.

Been there, done that.

 

[paul]

Up here in the cold, wet, clay soil of Minnesota, you need to get rid of the trash, so the soil warms up & dries out in spring. Our frost can be 4 feet deep,w e can have flooding snow melts every spring.

A disk & clay are a bad combination here. Makes pavement like surface, packing & compacting the clay into bricks.

Getting a planter to place corn seed acurately in the trash left from last year's cornstalks can take some very expensive attachments. Hairpinning, seed-soil contact, seed depth, and so on can be issues with corn seed especially.

Those are the issues one runs into.

You can do it, you can deal with it, your climate might make it easier, but that's the issues.

--->Paul

 

[Traditional Farmer]

Chisel plow and then disk is the way to go as far as I'm concerned

 

[Bill(Wis)]

Amen. I've been doing that for ten years and it works.

 

[Bill(Wis)]

The organic farmers around me have found that old-fashioned moldboard plowing immediately before planting corn offers the best protection from early weed growth. Weeds are the number one enemy of the organic farmer and anything that will give the planted crop even a little bit of a head start pays handsome dividends. I've watched it happen.

 

[kyhayman]

I hate to moldboard plow, period. Its one of those jobs that, to me is way too expensive in time and fuel. For several years I did just what you describe for corn, and other crops. Run a disc, plant, and be done. There are some drawbacks, particularly as others have said with compaction. It doesnt matter if the soil is dry enough on top to disc, its where the edge of the disc pans run that matters. Its real easy in a Kentucky spring to fudge a little on the ground being dry enough to run the disc. When you do, you've got problems. Much of the early notill research was done in Kentucky, and our state is one of the leading states in the nation for per capita notill acres.

I do run a chisel plow on occassion and also do pure notill. Both have there place for me. The biggest problem I see is with 5 acres its hard to justify investing in a different piece of equipment. For what its worth, I'd try to find a 2 row or 4 row which are sometimes cheaper, notill planter. Forget the plow and disc and just plant. I see JD and Allis 2 row n.t. planters selling for under 1000 bucks most years.

Generally, what I do is following some hay crop be it alfalfa or grass take the first cutting as early as I can get it off in May and wrap for round bale silage, spray with Roundup and Bicep at the low rate and immediately plant notill into the stubble with R.R. corn. After chopping the corn I immediately notill drill cover crop wheat into the stubble. The Bicep usually stunts the wheat a little but I can live with that better than erosion. Wheat comes off in early May as round bale silage, chisel and disc once each, and immediately plant R.R. corn. Back in the fall with either wheat notill or wheat and alfalfa and a grass. If its a dry fall I may wait until the wheat comes off in May to plant the alfalfa notill into the stubble.

 

[just another old geezer]

LOVE my chisel plow, but, up here we have to plow down once per rotation or we get way too much surface trash.

 

[John51]

I have grown my best corn ever with no till. I plant into alfafa sod I kill in the fall, or corn back to corn between the old rows. I do NOT chop the stalks! I will plow for oats/alfafa then there will be no tillage for again for 6 to 8 years. Two keys for me are good weed control and avoiding rutting up the fields. Also, some hybrids are much better suited to no till than others. The ground has a better structure and does not rut as easily anyway. (Pennsylvania)

 

[NY 986]

The only people moldboarding or extensive tilling around here are the Amish and some Mennonites and there is quite a bit of clay around. My only regret is we have had few falls dry enough to run the zone-builder (deep till) around here.

 

[John Harmon]

The answer for you is a good subsoiling every three years,chop the stalks and then use a chisel plow pulling a spiked tooth harrow to work the ground,Forget the moldboard plow and maybe the disc.Get you a good planter with disc openers and I'll bet your soil will improve,you will lose less of it to erosion if you will farm around the hill and not up and down it and your yeild will increase. This is a poor mans answer to min tillage that the big operators practice.

 

[Ray]

All the dirt does is hold the plant up,the nutrients in the soil do the rest.

 

[Bret4207]

It works on some land but not all. I"m on heavy clay, plowing gives the soil a change to warm faster in spring and breaks up the ground. On heavy sod it works too. Plus, I don;t have the money to put into the larger equipment needed for good chisel plowing, etc. I also hate the thought of spraying poison on my land. I"m not organic but it just seems wrong. A fence row is one thing, whole fields another.

 

[jddriver]

no till is the way to go all a disc does is pack

 

[KYfarm]

So with the equipment i've got, basically it sounds like I could probably get away with only plowing every other year or every third. I actually like plowing and think it is good for my old massey (1105) but it just really seems to be very waistful on this hilly ground.

Because again, we are only talking about approx 5 acres and I really don't want to buy anything new (to me) equipment.

If I do decide to someday get a no-till planter, what are the model numbers I should be looking for. If I did see a 2-row no-till for a few hundred I might just get it.

I really like the idea of taking an early cutting of hay then no-tilling corn into that area. Gives a good method of rotating the corn around and getting fresh grass seed planted.

Thanks for the info.....

 

[Rollie NE PA]

I asked my buddy why he stopped planting no-tlll. He said that after 15 years of planting no-till, he learned that no-till means no corn.

 

[Dick L]

I was told growing up that we needed to turn under a lot of plant fiber to rot to keep the soil loose.
Dad planted big clover to plow down for corn. A disc will not put the top trash down very deep.

In our area we get compaction from several years in a row with no till. Most are sub soiling deep to loosen the ground now.

In the 40's and 50's we also covered a lot of the fields with hog, chicken and cow manure.

 

[Brad Gyde]

I feel kinda like my post started this.. So I kinda feel like I need to add my 2 cents...

Why plow? Why not? That's what I think.. Everyone has their take on things..

My take is, plowing has really died off (at least here) since my childhood. I think the last time anyone really plowed around here was 85/86.. and I was 4 or 5 then.. Seems like I remember grandad pulling a 6 bottom with his 8070 Allis, just to get it shined up to sell it (I could have the details screwed up, but he did sell the plow, this I do know LOL)

I enjoy a little plowing.. I'd like to learn to do it correctly, and maybe show a younger generation some day (Hoping that there will be a younger generation interested...)

I know this may sound silly, but I'd like to rent a small farm around here (ten acres or so..) Just so I can plow, plant in wide rows, cultivate with my Massey and mounted cultivators, and pick corn with my self propelled picker. Why have the big boy sandbox toys if ya aren't gonna play with em??? (of course I'll have to rotate crops.. just a reason to play with more old equipment of course!!)

Brad

 

[kyplowboy]

I turn my tobacco ground. I put tobacco in the same place most of the time for two years. Then back to sod. I turn the sod the first year and then turn the grazed off cover crop wheat or rye grass the second year. My disk is not heavy enough to work down heavy sod or stomped down wheat ground real well and my tobacco setter likes a real clean field to work right.

This said, I am in the flatter ground and try to stay off the hill sides with tobacco.

Dave

 

[El Toro]

To keep your top soil from washing away I would strip farm it with strips of alfalfa on the hillsides.
They do this in PA where its hilly. Even the Amish do it. Hal
PS: I plow my garden twice a year since I like to plow. I plow in the Fall and use a cover crop
of barley or rye. I've used rye the last 2 years. I then plow this down in the Spring and till it with my Troy Bilt tiller. I usually have leaves that have rotted over Winter and I spread them over the garden and they're plowed under too.

 

[JDseller]

You needed to turn under the manure and weeds back when that was how it was done. Now manure has been replaced with commercial fertilizer and the weeds are controlled with chemicals. I do plow some ground every few years. I like to turn under heavy sod ground. I usually am applying lime at that time too. I like to mix it into the soil. I farm ground that is 6 to 9 percent slopes. All of my ground is strip farmed. I have grass water ways and buffer strips. So even when I plow I have very little erosion. I also plow throwing the ground up the hill. It helps combat the down hill movement of soil that is worked.

 

[buickanddeere]

(quoted from post at 11:41:33 10/05/10) I have grown my best corn ever with no till. I plant into alfafa sod I kill in the fall, or corn back to corn between the old rows. I do NOT chop the stalks! I will plow for oats/alfafa then there will be no tillage for again for 6 to 8 years. Two keys for me are good weed control and avoiding rutting up the fields. Also, some hybrids are much better suited to no till than others. The ground has a better structure and does not rut as easily anyway. (Pennsylvania)

If you don't mouldboard plough at least every other year here. The clay turns into an impervious barrier. The plants have about two inches of soil to grow in. The plants die in brief droughts and drown in ponds from modest rains.
If I had enough land and tractor to justify it. JD has a three shank spring mounted V-ripper tool bar. With three 10" tips and the top link shortened a little. It would loosen the soil just fine.
As it is I started using a single shank 22B with a 10" tip and moleball. Only time in two two of seven years here I haven't seen standing water on the fields after a rain.