2606 issues after rebuild

[bc]

Look at the valves numbered 11 in the attached diagram that come in the side that mates to the engine. Make sure they are free. That engine is a full flow filtration system.
CNHI parts diagram

Thanks. That will help. Hope it is something that was messed up when they mounted it. May not get to it today as I have a few cemeteries to get to.

Found the pics when I mounted it 3 years ago. Flywheel had 22 thousandths taken off to reface it. There isn't enough clearance with the flywheel mounting bolts to get the spring side of the organic clutch disk in to the flywheel and still have the contact surfaces touch (edit) so the only way it went in was spring side into the "pressure plate" (edit). I didn't remove any bolts on the pressure plate but when I originally mounted it this piece of key stock about 3 inches long fell out of it which is laying on the board in the pic. Don't know what it was for. Have to load pics from computer later.

 

[Janicholson]

Thanks. That will help. Hope it is something that was messed up when they mounted it. May not get to it today as I have a few cemeteries to get to.

Found the pics when I mounted it 3 years ago. Flywheel had 22 thousandths taken off to reface it. l. I didn't remove any bolts on the pressure plate but when I originally mounted it this piece of key stock about 3 inches long fell out of it which is laying on the board in the pic. Don't know what it was for. Have to load pics from computer later.

With respect, your statement is internally inconsistent. You state the flywheel was surfaced .022 Was the PP surface also milled .022? if not the PP friction surface and the FW friction surface are now farther away than intended by engineering. That amount would not cause issues until the new disc was worn out about 80%. You state: "There isn't enough clearance with the mounting bolts to get the spring side of the organic clutch disk in there so the only way it went in was spring side into the flywheel." The spring side of the disc cannot be toward the FW or there will be no clutch release the springs will drag on the FW mounting bolts as it is assembled. Jim

 

[bc]

With respect, your statement is internally inconsistent. You state the flywheel was surfaced .022 Was the PP surface also milled .022? if not the PP friction surface and the FW friction surface are now farther away than intended by engineering. That amount would not cause issues until the new disc was worn out about 80%. You state: "There isn't enough clearance with the mounting bolts to get the spring side of the organic clutch disk in there so the only way it went in was spring side into the flywheel." The spring side of the disc cannot be toward the FW or there will be no clutch release the springs will drag on the FW mounting bolts as it is assembled. Jim

Thanks Jim. On the surfacing: As I recall the flywheel looked a little glazed and maybe had some surface checking/cracks. So they surfaced it. When it was done and I picked it up they had marked the flywheel with paint stick .022 which I assume is how much they took off. I bot the clutch and pressure plate separately and no one there said anything at the time about needing to surface the pressure plate to match. I'll keep that in mind but I doubt I'll ever use it enough to get to 80% wear. The old clutch and pressure plate still looked fairly good but I was always taught that once you tore into something it is better to replace it now. Back in the day I got to the point of pulling the 57 chevy under a tree and having the engine out in 30 minutes to fix things like clutch plates and throwout bearings, etc. Always did things on the cheap back then.

On the clutch plate I will edit that if there is still time. I meant to say that the mounting bolts of the flywheel were so close to the surface of the flywheel that the clutch plate springs would contact the bolts and drag on those bolts before the plate surfaces could touch so the only way the clutch plate can go in is with the springs facing and going into the pressure plate. I think if it was backwards then there would be a big explosion when the springs hit those bolts. The pressure plate couldn't be bolted up if it was backwards as well.

 

[used red MN]

I was thinking about adding a clarification to what Jim was saying, he left out a few important words that would help a semi-novice. (apologies to Jim) The pressure plate mounting surface on the flywheel is what he was talking about. Done correctly it should be machined down the same amount as is taken off the clutch mating surface. This keep the clamping force on the lined plate consistent with the original spec.
On the other hand I also suspected you were talking about the interference with the springs and the flywheel bolts. There is no “explosion” when this is done. The pressure plate simply cannot pull back enough to release the lined plate so the symptom is a clutch that does not release.

 

[Janicholson]

Thanks Jim. On the surfacing: As I recall the flywheel looked a little glazed and maybe had some surface checking/cracks. So they surfaced it. When it was done and I picked it up they had marked the flywheel with paint stick .022 which I assume is how much they took off. I bot the clutch and pressure plate separately and no one there said anything at the time about needing to surface the pressure plate to match. I'll keep that in mind but I doubt I'll ever use it enough to get to 80% wear. The old clutch and pressure plate still looked fairly good but I was always taught that once you tore into something it is better to replace it now. Back in the day I got to the point of pulling the 57 chevy under a tree and having the engine out in 30 minutes to fix things like clutch plates and throwout bearings, etc. Always did things on the cheap back then.

On the clutch plate I will edit that if there is still time. I meant to say that the mounting bolts of the flywheel were so close to the surface of the flywheel that the clutch plate springs would contact the bolts and drag on those bolts before the plate surfaces could touch so the only way the clutch plate can go in is with the springs facing and going into the pressure plate. I think if it was backwards then there would be a big explosion when the springs hit those bolts. The pressure plate couldn't be bolted up if it was backwards as well.

It will bolt up backwards, but not function. The material removed when facing a flywheel is the friction surface, and the Pressure plate mounting surface (on the flywheel), not the PP. it stays as manufactured. This keeps the original new sandwich the same thickness. Same size opening when driving the clutch as when new. The mounting surface will look machined and fresh, not stained and funky. Jim

 

[bc]

I was thinking about adding a clarification to what Jim was saying, he left out a few important words that would help a semi-novice. (apologies to Jim) The pressure plate mounting surface on the flywheel is what he was talking about. Done correctly it should be machined down the same amount as is taken off the clutch mating surface. This keep the clamping force on the lined plate consistent with the original spec.
On the other hand I also suspected you were talking about the interference with the springs and the flywheel bolts. There is no “explosion” when this is done. The pressure plate simply cannot pull back enough to release the lined plate so the symptom is a clutch that does not release.

OK. Now I got it. And that explains why they wrote .022 twice on the flywheel. Once where the clutch disk faces against it and they also wrote .022 around the pressure plate "bolt up" surface ring where the pressure plate mounting bolt holes are. I see both places had been machined. I was thinking you guys were saying I should have taken my brand new pressure plate to a machine shop and have its face milled off the same amount.

On the other hand I was also talking about the interference between the springs on the organic clutch disk and the flywheel bolts that bolt up the flywheel to the rear of the crankshaft. I don't doubt that they can be reversed and I very well could have done that. I just have this faint 3 year old failing memory that when I laid the disk on flywheel it would not touch faces because of the springs. I'll know more when I get the oil pressure problem worked out. Once I get new batteries in my endoscope I'll give it a look. Also I have been thinking of this like the clutches I changed on my old Chevys. Thanks.

 

[bc]

Had a chance to pull that oil filter plate this evening. Got one pic I can post. Noticed a couple things.

One of the ports coming out of the block is half covered by the gasket.

I pulled the two snap rings and compression springs that come out the side towards the block. What I noticed is that the the longer spring was in the lower hole but the drawing shows the longer spring (#15) should be in the upper hole. I didn't dig any further but I felt a little thin disk in the bottom hole that felt loose. #11 in the drawing says there is a valve in there but I don't know what these valves should look like. I still need to clean up the oil and see what is in the holes. I didn't look to see if there is a similar spring and valve in the center looking up into the oil filter. I don't know if the machine shop would have taken it apart or not and reversed the springs or if it was always that way.

Also figured out I have a bad mechanical temperature sender and gauge. Heated a can of water to boiling with a torch and with the sender in the water. It didn't budge.

Thanks.

 

[used red MN]

I don’t know how accurate that parts diagram is showing the length of the springs. I can’t tell you which one goes where for certain. Did the tractor come with that adapter for the spin on filter? That is not stock, wouldn’t hurt to pull that apart and show us what it looks like in a photo. Did they replace the cam bearings?
On you clutch I just thought of this, you said you put a new pressure plate in it. There is certainly a lot of rust on it for brand new, I know you said it has been 3 years. That tells me it has sat in some fairly high humidity area. It is very likely your lined clutch plate has rusted to the flywheel and pressure plate surfaces. It will be a semi-pain but unbolt the pressure plate through the access hole and then you can free/unstick the lined plate. Work around it loosening the bolts evenly and the same when reassembling.

 

[Fritz Maurer]

Is that spin-on filter really worth all this grief? All the thing really does is increase the cost of the oil change.

The well-documented problem with that engine has nothing to do with the cartridge filter.

 

[used red MN]

Is that spin-on filter really worth all this grief? All the thing really does is increase the cost of the oil change.

The well-documented problem with that engine has nothing to do with the cartridge filter.

Fritz, curious what you are referring to by “well documented problem with that engine”?

 

[bc]

I don’t know how accurate that parts diagram is showing the length of the springs. I can’t tell you which one goes where for certain. Did the tractor come with that adapter for the spin on filter? That is not stock, wouldn’t hurt to pull that apart and show us what it looks like in a photo. Did they replace the cam bearings?
On you clutch I just thought of this, you said you put a new pressure plate in it. There is certainly a lot of rust on it for brand new, I know you said it has been 3 years. That tells me it has sat in some fairly high humidity area. It is very likely your lined clutch plate has rusted to the flywheel and pressure plate surfaces. It will be a semi-pain but unbolt the pressure plate through the access hole and then you can free/unstick the lined plate. Work around it loosening the bolts evenly and the same when reassembling.

Had a chance to clean up the oil filter plate today. That plate was on it when I got it. Pic is below. I was wrong about the springs as I looked at it upside down yesterday. The springs are in the right place and those valves are some kind of carbon fiber wafer but they have a clean side and seats look ok. The drawing was for a canister filter and the only difference on this one with the spin on filter is there is no valve and spring that looks up into the middle of the filter. It is an open port that connects to the upper port with the longer spring on the filter plate. Guess I'll stick it all back together. That's not a gasket I want to make or use RTV on so whenever the stealership has one or gets one in then it goes back together. I don't know if that port half blocked by the gasket can affect the oil pressure or not but I guess probably not.

Thought of something tonight to try is plug those ports off with some rubber and a board and blow air in and see where it goes. I did try to stick my endoscope into those ports and also into the oil fill but there is no way to see the ends where the galley plugs would be.

Does anyone think I can pull the push rod cover on the left side or remove a couple freeze plugs on the right side to get a looksee for oil galley plugs and maybe put them in, if missing, from there?

It has a new camshaft in there as well along with a reground crankshaft. I believe the camshaft would have new bearings or bushings as well. Got a new water pump, everything new except the oil pump. Could new cam and crank bearings have anything to do with low oil pressure?

I readjusted the clutch pedal adjusting rod and it feels like it engages the fingers just fine. Won't know for sure until I can crank on it and see if the plate if free or not. Have to get a couple new 1/2" pins as the old ones have enough wear and slop in them to account for a 1/2" of free pedal. Then adjust again.

 

[bc]

Hello guys. Think I found something. Was trying to plug those oil filter ports to see if it would pressure up when blowing air in. It looked like the engine had 4 ports and the oil filter housing only has cavities for 3 ports. Upon further inspection I found that the port that I mentioned in an earlier thread that was half covered by the gasket actually has threads and is the same size as the other oil galleys on the side of the engine. I thought I posted this pic the other day but will do so now and it shows the engine and filter housing as I laid it over. There is no plug in it.

Blowing air through the rear oil galley on the rail leaves air blowing out the 2 ports that feed the housing cavities that contain the valves and springs and also the threaded oil galley hole. Nothing comes out of the port on the far right. When I plug them off the best I can then air pressure does go up and I don't hear any air leaking in the engine which I hope means the front and rear oil galley plugs are in there.

I can't see any reason to feed oil from a port and from a threaded oil galley into one cavity/chamber of the oil filter housing. It would basically be bypassing oil I believe. It looks like the port to the left is on that oil rail running along the engine so the oil rail (what I call it anyway) is feeding oil to both valves in the filter housing at the same time.

Of course when I look at the engine drawings for a C-221 I don't see any oil galley plugs showing up anywhere in the drawings or parts lists (front, rear, or side). I'll call the stealership tomorrow to see if they stock any and the gasket. Thanks.

 

[bc]

Hello guys. Waiting on a gasket now. Apparently none in the state and have to truck in from Missouri. Old is working on too many tractors so they stock everything there.

What kind of thread are the galley plugs? Pulled one out that is a tapered thread. Pulled the other out and it is a straight thread and that is the one that leaks and acts like it could screw all the way through.

Also wondering what the thread is for those temperature gauges? Just want to bullplug it for now until I get another one.

Thursday the gasket will be here. Then will see what happens. Thanks.