Locked up rear end

[Samske]

(quoted from post at 16:35:04 07/17/23)

(quoted from post at 11:41:42 07/16/23) Hi thanks for alowing me to become a member. I have a Branson 2800 compact tractor and last week I was pulling a log out of the woods, it snaged up I gave it a little running tug and the hole rear of my tractor locked up almost bending the tractor in half shut off right away. It is a hydrostatic transmition. Now it will not start or move.everything is locked up

Why do I suspect the entire episode should have been videoed as a you tube how not to .

because that you and you don't want to help just cause a runcus.

 

[Samske]

I'm not a purest I use my machines a little hard. Some people baby their machines and don't use them. I use mine every day and get the most out of them. I'm merely having a problem and are asking the good folks if they have run into a like problem. I have helped people with other problems and am quite happy if we solve their problem. I never find a reason to throw it in their face

 

[used red MN]

I try to credit others for their suggestions when I mention them but in this case I cannot find it by a quick scan through the replies. But whoever suggested jacking up one rear wheel has my vote of an important item for diagnosis. In my opinion doing this should tell you if there is tension or pressure on the drive train and should release it. Are you still not physically able to go investigate the tractor further? I know I asked at least once whether the engine is actually locked and cannot turn? The flavor of your gum will have not be needed to answer this question.

 

[wore out]

Dunno what you did/got going on but ''residual pressure'' in the hydrostatic drive ISN'T your issue.

Within a few minutes after the engine was no longer running any trapped pressure would have bled off.

Get your (stuff) together and post some photos of the bend/damage to the tractor's frame and let's get to the bottom of this.

 

[Samske]

(quoted from post at 22:30:06 07/17/23) I try to credit others for their suggestions when I mention them but in this case I cannot find it by a quick scan through the replies. But whoever suggested jacking up one rear wheel has my vote of an important item for diagnosis. In my opinion doing this should tell you if there is tension or pressure on the drive train and should release it. Are you still not physically able to go investigate the tractor further? I know I asked at least once whether the engine is actually locked and cannot turn? The flavor of your gum will have not be needed to answer this question.

Yes I agree i can pick up tractor with my excavator see if that unloads rear axel. Back is getting better still some pain. Got some logs out with my excavator and milled them. My back was toast after. I will try this tomorrow, fairly east to pick up with excavator on roll cage. Thank You

 

[showcrop]

(quoted from post at 22:53:31 07/17/23)

Dunno what you did/got going on but ''residual pressure'' in the hydrostatic drive ISN'T your issue.

Within a few minutes after the engine was no longer running any trapped pressure would have bled off.

Get your (stuff) together and post some photos of the bend/damage to the tractor's frame and let's get to the bottom of this.

Wore out, he is certain that his problem is a bent frame causing a hydraulic lock-up. He pretty much ignores any post that doesn't agree with his diagnosis. It is hard to see why he has even asked for help. probably only for something to do while his back recovers.

 

[Samske]

(quoted from post at 03:52:26 07/18/23)

(quoted from post at 22:53:31 07/17/23)

Dunno what you did/got going on but ''residual pressure'' in the hydrostatic drive ISN'T your issue.

Within a few minutes after the engine was no longer running any trapped pressure would have bled off.

Get your (stuff) together and post some photos of the bend/damage to the tractor's frame and let's get to the bottom of this.

Wore out, he is certain that his problem is a bent frame causing a hydraulic lock-up. He pretty much ignores any post that doesn't agree with his diagnosis. It is hard to see why he has even asked for help. probably only for something to do while his back recovers.

I don't believe it's a bent frame, but you may be right . I still have to unload the back end no mater what. I will get the pics but it's been heavily raining here and I have wood orders to put out . No need to get testy it will work out and we will probably all get our answers. First thing first releive hydrolic or mechanical pressure on rear end. If you have input as to how to do this I'm open to it

 

[docmirror]

(quoted from post at 04:44:40 07/17/23) . I was chewing spruce gum! but the tractor stopped moving forward and began to flex in the middle under my seat. A plastic shroud under my seat that usually is tight to floor mat is now up off mat by inch. Whole tractor is under loadfrom what appears to be something bound up. There were no sounds out of the ordinary like: poping, squealing, or breaking noise the energy just seemed to be absorbed in the tractor instead of rotating the wheels. Shut off immediately by key as soon as I felt the flex. It's been in the flex or stress position ever since. Unfortunately my back went out the next day and is just feeling better today. So haven't looked at it since. My knowledge of hydrostatic tranies is not great but I am a macanical person. I do most of my own work.

Generally speaking, in tractor parlance, a hydrostatic trans has a clutchless connection to the engine. The engine pressurizes the hydro pump, and that pressure is sent to one or more double acting valves(similar to a spool valve) which sends hydro pressure to the various motor(s) to drive the wheel(s). Usually just one, but in the case of a ZTR there are two, one for each side.

I will assume there is one shift lever, and it has "N", "F", "R" for neutral, forward, reverse, and is a variable length lever throw for speed control. If the lever is still in the "F" condition, and the hydro system is still operating, you will not be able to start the engine with the load still on. Most hydro systems have a safety which only allows engine start in the "N" position, where the pressure on the spool valve is diverted back into the reservoir, and not directed at the motor(s).

1. Is your shift lever in a position OTHER than "N"? If yes, put it in "N" and the pressure will relieve from the hydro motor(s) which drive the wheels.

2. With the shift in "N", and the rest of the safety interlocks set like the brake, and seat will the starter engage? If not, there is an interlock problem, or shifter not in N.

3. If the starter engages, but the engine will not turn over and start, then the hydro pump is locked somehow, and you will need to mechanically disconnect the hydro input from the engine output to test the engine, and then the hydro pump.

As I stated back at the start, it sounds like the pump has become frozen for some reason. It could be a spool valve, but more likely the hydro pump is no longer willing to turn and create pressure.

 

[Samske]

(quoted from post at 11:45:50 07/18/23)

(quoted from post at 04:44:40 07/17/23) . I was chewing spruce gum! but the tractor stopped moving forward and began to flex in the middle under my seat. A plastic shroud under my seat that usually is tight to floor mat is now up off mat by inch. Whole tractor is under loadfrom what appears to be something bound up. There were no sounds out of the ordinary like: poping, squealing, or breaking noise the energy just seemed to be absorbed in the tractor instead of rotating the wheels. Shut off immediately by key as soon as I felt the flex. It's been in the flex or stress position ever since. Unfortunately my back went out the next day and is just feeling better today. So haven't looked at it since. My knowledge of hydrostatic tranies is not great but I am a macanical person. I do most of my own work.

Thank you this is the info I'm looking for. Basically a place to start I will put in N and see if pressure releases. Will this happen fast or does it release pressure over a short time. Thank you very much. My next question would be the hydrolic pump on the side of engine is that only running the loader valve for the front bucket hydrolics or is there another pump at the rear of tractor in rear housing
.

 

[HFJ]

(quoted from post at 02:30:06 07/18/23) I try to credit others for their suggestions when I mention them but in this case I cannot find it by a quick scan through the replies. But whoever suggested jacking up one rear wheel has my vote of an important item for diagnosis. In my opinion doing this should tell you if there is tension or pressure on the drive train and should release it. Are you still not physically able to go investigate the tractor further? I know I asked at least once whether the engine is actually locked and cannot turn? The flavor of your gum will have not be needed to answer this question.

that was i. i'm in way over my pay scale on this one, so if it proves to be helpful, i will only need one more miracle to qualify for sainthood.

 

[docmirror]

Thank you this is the info I'm looking for. Basically a place to start I will put in N and see if pressure releases. Will this happen fast or does it release pressure over a short time. Thank you very much. My next question would be the hydrolic pump on the side of engine is that only running the loader valve for the front bucket hydrolics or is there another pump at the rear of tractor in rear housing
.

I have no idea on either question, although they were not framed as questions(??). The hydrostatic drive will be driven directly by the output shaft of the engine. If there's a pump on the side of the engine, I would guess that drives the acc hydraulics and has nothing to do with the traction drive, but I know nothing about your modern, compact, Korean tractor.

This post was edited by docmirror on 07/18/2023 at 09:52 pm.

 

[Samske]

(quoted from post at 11:45:50 07/18/23)

(quoted from post at 04:44:40 07/17/23) . I was chewing spruce gum! but the tractor stopped moving forward and began to flex in the middle under my seat. A plastic shroud under my seat that usually is tight to floor mat is now up off mat by inch. Whole tractor is under loadfrom what appears to be something bound up. There were no sounds out of the ordinary like: poping, squealing, or breaking noise the energy just seemed to be absorbed in the tractor instead of rotating the wheels. Shut off immediately by key as soon as I felt the flex. It's been in the flex or stress position ever since. Unfortunately my back went out the next day and is just feeling better today. So haven't looked at it since. My knowledge of hydrostatic tranies is not great but I am a macanical person. I do most of my own work.

Generally speaking, in tractor parlance, a hydrostatic trans has a clutchless connection to the engine. The engine pressurizes the hydro pump, and that pressure is sent to one or more double acting valves(similar to a spool valve) which sends hydro pressure to the various motor(s) to drive the wheel(s). Usually just one, but in the case of a ZTR there are two, one for each side.

I will assume there is one shift lever, and it has "N", "F", "R" for neutral, forward, reverse, and is a variable length lever throw for speed control. If the lever is still in the "F" condition, and the hydro system is still operating, you will not be able to start the engine with the load still on. Most hydro systems have a safety which only allows engine start in the "N" position, where the pressure on the spool valve is diverted back into the reservoir, and not directed at the motor(s).

1. Is your shift lever in a position OTHER than "N"? If yes, put it in "N" and the pressure will relieve from the hydro motor(s) which drive the wheels.

2. With the shift in "N", and the rest of the safety interlocks set like the brake, and seat will the starter engage? If not, there is an interlock problem, or shifter not in N.

3. If the starter engages, but the engine will not turn over and start, then the hydro pump is locked somehow, and you will need to mechanically disconnect the hydro input from the engine output to test the engine, and then the hydro pump.

As I stated back at the start, it sounds like the pump has become frozen for some reason. It could be a spool valve, but more likely the hydro pump is no longer willing to turn and create pressure.

Just tried to put tractor into N position it won't move . Everything connected to either side if rear housing at axel will not move. Clutch, forward, back pedal and brake pedal. My 3point hitch is moving freely and my 4 wheel drive shifter and loging winch lever all move




This post was edited by Samske on 07/19/2023 at 08:10 am.

 

[Samske]

why do you feel the need to attack me. I'm looking for many different typs of info so I can get an idea of what's going on and where to start. I have a pick of shroud area under seat and have been trying to post but haven't figured the method here yet so chill please and cut out the negative. I need my tractor as i am retired and suplement my income by milling lumber. You may have all the money in the world but I don't and work hard to make ends meet

 

[HFJ]

(quoted from post at 12:06:05 07/19/23)
Just tried to put tractor into N position it won't move.

sorry to hear it. you're still stuck, and i'm back to needing two more miracles

 

[Dave G9N]

(quoted from post at 17:07:07 07/16/23) I'll send one when I figure out how this is my first post

ou can't post an image until you have posted a small number of times. The forum software has a counter for some reason.

From your description, I would suspect a broken gear in the differential, which will lock up the rear end.

This post was edited by Dave G9N on 07/19/2023 at 12:10 pm.

 

[Jim.ME]

(quoted from post at 14:52:08 07/19/23)

(quoted from post at 17:07:07 07/16/23) I'll send one when I figure out how this is my first post

ou can't post an image until you have posted a small number of times. The forum software has a counter for some reason.

From your description, I would suspect a broken gear in the differential, which will lock up the rear end.

This post was edited by Dave G9N on 07/19/2023 at 12:10 pm.

Dave G9N,

The post number requirement was removed from both views a few months ago.

Samske,

To post pictures, go down the page a bit from where you type a reply and look for a bat that says: ''Upload Photos/Videos''. Right below that bar it says: ''Choose Files''. Click on that button and it should open your computer, or other device. Go to where the picture you want is stored and upload using that window. D Not use the img button above the post text box. It may take a bit of time to upload depending on yopur connection and the picture size. There is a size limit of about 7MB of picture in a post. That is for one picture or the total of several in a post. pictures from some phones have to be reduced in size to post. Down near the bottom of the forum index is a Test Forum where you can experiment without cluttering up your post while you figure it out.

 

[Jim.ME]

(quoted from post at 14:52:08 07/19/23)

(quoted from post at 17:07:07 07/16/23) I'll send one when I figure out how this is my first post

ou can't post an image until you have posted a small number of times. The forum software has a counter for some reason.

From your description, I would suspect a broken gear in the differential, which will lock up the rear end.

This post was edited by Dave G9N on 07/19/2023 at 12:10 pm.

Dave G9N,

The post number requirement was removed from both views a few months ago.

Samske,

To post pictures, go down the page a bit from where you type a reply and look for a bat that says: ''Upload Photos/Videos''. Right below that bar it says: ''Choose Files''. Click on that button and it should open your computer, or other device. Go to where the picture you want is stored and upload using that window. D Not use the img button above the post text box. It may take a bit of time to upload depending on yopur connection and the picture size. There is a size limit of about 7MB of picture in a post. That is for one picture or the total of several in a post. pictures from some phones have to be reduced in size to post. Down near the bottom of the forum index is a Test Forum where you can experiment without cluttering up your post while you figure it out.

 

[docmirror]

Just tried to put tractor into N position it won't move . Everything connected to either side if rear housing at axel will not move. Clutch, forward, back pedal and brake pedal. My 3point hitch is moving freely and my 4 wheel drive shifter and loging winch lever all move




This post was edited by Samske on 07/19/2023 at 08:10 am.

More guessing here, but you mentioned some twisting moment applied to the chassis. I don't know where the shifter is located, but it may be binding on some part of the chassis. If it's not binding on the chassis, it's time to call someone to separate the engine from hydro trans. Start the engine, if it runs, then have the hydro looked at.

 

[Samske]

(quoted from post at 13:14:58 07/19/23)

Just tried to put tractor into N position it won't move . Everything connected to either side if rear housing at axel will not move. Clutch, forward, back pedal and brake pedal. My 3point hitch is moving freely and my 4 wheel drive shifter and loging winch lever all move




This post was edited by Samske on 07/19/2023 at 08:10 am.

More guessing here, but you mentioned some twisting moment applied to the chassis. I don't know where the shifter is located, but it may be binding on some part of the chassis. If it's not binding on the chassis, it's time to call someone to separate the engine from hydro trans. Start the engine, if it runs, then have the hydro looked at.

Can't start tractor as it's stuck in gear

 

[docmirror]

Can't start tractor as it's stuck in gear

Read it again, in sequence.